As you have already knew, a pastor in Singapore was charged for
illegally using 24 millions of the church money.
Billions of dollars had been wasted every month all over the world to
support pastor/priest millionaire lifestyle. More goes to building
expensive building.
Imagine all this money was given to the poor and unfortunate, the
world will be a far far better place.
Instead, it was used to produce serial killer and rapist and criminal.
Doesn't believe me ? Check the status and you will be shocked. Most
serial rapist and murderer came from strong church members.
Even Adolf Hitler was a real Christian.
No Christian Church means no war, no suffering, no hatred.
See thru the hypocrisy. Prevent your love one from going to the
church. You will save a life.
Thursday 28 June 2012
Singapore pastor charged in $19 million fraud case
from AFP news:
The founder of one of Singapore's richest churches was charged in
court Wednesday for allegedly syphoning off nearly $19 million of the
congregation's money to support his wife's singing career.
Pastor Kong Hee, 47, faced three charges of "criminal breach of trust"
relating to the misuse of the funds of the City Harvest Church, one of
Singapore's biggest with a membership of over 30,000.
Kong was accused of "dishonestly misappropriating monies" from the
church's building fund over several years to support the career of his
wife Ho Yeow Sun, who had tried to become a music star in the United
States.
The church, which has affiliates in neighbouring Malaysia and other
countries, is known for services that resemble pop concerts.
The pastor's wife, now in her early 40s, was hoping international
stardom would help spread the church's message, according to previous
reports in the Singapore media.
Four other church executives were charged Wednesday before a district
court for aiding Kong and faced other charges for allegedly attempting
to misappropriate millions of dollars from the church's funds.
Kong and the four others were arrested Tuesday by the Commercial
Affairs Department, a police unit set up to fight financial crime, and
could face life imprisonment as well as a fine if convicted.
They have been suspended from their church positions and are out on
bail of Sg$500,000 each, with their passports impounded.
On Tuesday, officials overseeing charities estimated that Kong was
involved in misappropriating Sg$23 million ($18 million) in church
funds but in the charge sheet filed on Wednesday, the total was raised
to Sg$24 million.
According to court documents, the church funds were channelled through
"purported bond investments" in two companies, which were in fact
"sham transactions".
"They were devised by the accused persons in order to conceal the
diversion of the Church's Building Fund to fund Sun Ho's music
career... As well as other unauthorised purposes," the documents said.
City Harvest is a Christian group listed as a charity. The arrests
came after a two-year police investigation.
Kong, who appeared in a courtroom filled with supporters as well as
local media, stood with a grave expression as charges were laid out
against him.
After the session, Kong walked out holding hands with his wife,
declining to speak to the media as members of his entourage shoved
journalists away and tried to prevent photographers from shooting
pictures.
The couple became minor celebrities in Singapore after launching the
church, which officials estimated had net assets of Sg$103 million in
2009.
Singapore authorities have cracked down on heads of charities found to
have been involved in irregularities.
In 2009, a prominent Buddhist monk was jailed for six months for
misappropriating hospital funds and lying about it to authorities.
The founder of one of Singapore's richest churches was charged in
court Wednesday for allegedly syphoning off nearly $19 million of the
congregation's money to support his wife's singing career.
Pastor Kong Hee, 47, faced three charges of "criminal breach of trust"
relating to the misuse of the funds of the City Harvest Church, one of
Singapore's biggest with a membership of over 30,000.
Kong was accused of "dishonestly misappropriating monies" from the
church's building fund over several years to support the career of his
wife Ho Yeow Sun, who had tried to become a music star in the United
States.
The church, which has affiliates in neighbouring Malaysia and other
countries, is known for services that resemble pop concerts.
The pastor's wife, now in her early 40s, was hoping international
stardom would help spread the church's message, according to previous
reports in the Singapore media.
Four other church executives were charged Wednesday before a district
court for aiding Kong and faced other charges for allegedly attempting
to misappropriate millions of dollars from the church's funds.
Kong and the four others were arrested Tuesday by the Commercial
Affairs Department, a police unit set up to fight financial crime, and
could face life imprisonment as well as a fine if convicted.
They have been suspended from their church positions and are out on
bail of Sg$500,000 each, with their passports impounded.
On Tuesday, officials overseeing charities estimated that Kong was
involved in misappropriating Sg$23 million ($18 million) in church
funds but in the charge sheet filed on Wednesday, the total was raised
to Sg$24 million.
According to court documents, the church funds were channelled through
"purported bond investments" in two companies, which were in fact
"sham transactions".
"They were devised by the accused persons in order to conceal the
diversion of the Church's Building Fund to fund Sun Ho's music
career... As well as other unauthorised purposes," the documents said.
City Harvest is a Christian group listed as a charity. The arrests
came after a two-year police investigation.
Kong, who appeared in a courtroom filled with supporters as well as
local media, stood with a grave expression as charges were laid out
against him.
After the session, Kong walked out holding hands with his wife,
declining to speak to the media as members of his entourage shoved
journalists away and tried to prevent photographers from shooting
pictures.
The couple became minor celebrities in Singapore after launching the
church, which officials estimated had net assets of Sg$103 million in
2009.
Singapore authorities have cracked down on heads of charities found to
have been involved in irregularities.
In 2009, a prominent Buddhist monk was jailed for six months for
misappropriating hospital funds and lying about it to authorities.
Sunday 24 June 2012
Christianity - the religion that promote foolishness
By WizenedSage (Galen Rose) ~
The ship of fools is an allegory which depicts a vessel populated by
humans who are confused, frivolous, or deluded, and often ignorant of
their own course or destination. In the 15th and 16th centuries, the
ship of fools concept also served to parody the 'ark of salvation' as
the Catholic Church was sometimes called.
Ship of Fools
Ship of Fools (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
In some ways, the Titanic could be seen as a "ship of fools." The
designers of the ship, its owners, and its captain and crew were all
fools in one way or another, leading the doomed ship to a watery
grave. Following the disaster, two official inquiries, US and British,
reached similar conclusions; the number of lifeboats aboard was
inadequate, the Captain failed to take proper heed of ice warnings,
many of the lifeboats were only partially loaded when launched (due to
inadequate crew training), and the ship was steaming through a
dangerous area at too high a speed. The whole enterprise appears to be
a matter of leadership by fools.
The Christian religion is similar in many respects. Many of its
primary movers and shakers, the architects of much Christian dogma,
were – if not downright fools – decidedly odd individuals. Below, I
offer, in their own words, some of their own foolishness. I give extra
space to Paul because he is widely considered the chief architect of
Christianity - and because he said so darned many foolish things.
Paul of Tarsus:
"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for
there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that
exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists authority
resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur
judgment." - Letter to the Romans 13:1.
This is the principal of the "Divine Right of Kings." Here, Paul is
saying that one should always agree with one's political leader, even
a Hitler or Stalin.
In 1 Corinthians 1: 17, Paul claimed that God was anti-intellectual:
"Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in
the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, God
decided, through the foolishness of our proclamation, to save those
who believe."
So, to be wise in the ways of the world is foolish? And, science, the
process by which we learn how the world works, is a foolish
undertaking? My life was saved several years go by colon surgery. I'm
sure glad that surgeon ignored the "wisdom" of Paul.
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for
reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the
man of God may be perfect (complete, adequate, competent), equipped
for every good work." - 2 Tim. 3:16-17.
So, if all scripture is inspired by god, then we can be sure that god
really wants us to stop eating shellfish, wearing mixed fabrics, and
to kill homosexuals, adulterers, and people who work on Sunday? Could
it be that Paul didn't know what was in scripture quite as well as he
thought he did?
"Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give
satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to
pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in
everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior."
- Titus 2:9-10.
Apparently, if you're a slave then that is god's will, so you should
just shut up and enjoy it; easy to say, if you've never been a slave.
"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she
is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was
not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." -
1 Tim. 2: 9-15.
Thus, women are inferior because Eve was scammed by a talking snake.
Is that a good enough reason for you?
"I mean, brothers and sisters, the appointed time has grown short;
from now on, let even those who have wives be as though they had none.
. . For the present form of this world is passing away. - I
Corinthians 7: 29.
Here, Paul is suggesting that men abandon their wives because the
Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. His timing was off by over 2,000 years.
Was he a tad deluded, do ya think?
Tertullian (c.160-c.225 - has been called "the father of Latin
Christianity" and "the founder of Western theology."):
Speaking of the Resurrection of Christ, Tertullian wrote:
"I believe because it is absurd."
So, according to this great thinker, if something, anything, is
utterly preposterous, then it must be true? Maybe I just lack
imagination, but I can't think of a dumber reason to believe in
something.
Augustine (354-430 C.E. - was a Latin philosopher and theologian from
whose writings were very influential in the development of Western
Christianity.):
"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith
is to see what you believe."
This reminds me of that other fairy tale where Peter Pan says that if
you really believe, then you can fly. I particularly like Dan Barker's
take on this: "Faith is a cop-out. . . With faith, you don't have to
put any work into proving your case. You can 'just believe.' "
Augustine also wrote, "There is no possible source of evil except
good." And I'm sure you all know exactly what he meant by that.
Like many Christian writers, Augustine had a talent for confounding
the Bible's teaching. In one place he wrote, "God loves each of us as
if there were only one of us." And in another place he wrote, "He that
is jealous is not in love." Now, one of these statements MUST be
false, for Bible-god admits to being jealous.
Anselm (1033-1109 - is most famous in philosophy for the so-called
"ontological argument," and in theology for his doctrine of the
atonement):
In the ontological argument, Anselm defined God as the greatest
possible being we can conceive and argued that this being could exist
in the mind. He suggested that, if the greatest possible being exists
in the mind, it must also exist in reality. Numerous writers since
Anselm have shown that the ontological could be used to prove the
existence of anything, thus the argument has absurd consequences.
After all, Anselm is basically saying that if you can think it, then
it must exist, which is silly. Anselm seems to have confused
imagination with reality.
"I have written the little work that follows . . . in the role of
one who strives to raise his mind to the contemplation of God and one
who seeks to understand what he believes."
We could paraphrase thus: "There's stuff here I don't understand, but
I believe it anyway." Hardly the mark of a deep thinker, I'd say.
Aquinas (1225-1274 – considered by some to be the Catholic Church's
greatest theologian and philosopher):
"If forgers and malefactors are put to death by the secular power,
there is much more reason for excommunicating and even putting to
death one convicted of heresy."
So, if one doesn't believe as Aquinas believes, then he should be put
to death. Clearly he was a man of great morality and compassion. Don't
believe me? Well, Aquinas also said, "That the saints may enjoy their
beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to
see the punishment of the damned in hell." Who would have guessed that
hell was a spectator sport? And how do you suppose Aquinas knew this,
anyway?
"It is necessary to posit something which is necessary of itself,
and has no cause of its necessity outside of itself but is the cause
of necessity in other things. And all people call this thing God."
Aquinas is speaking here of what is usually termed a first cause:
i.e., the only cause which is not also an effect of a prior cause.
But, even if we granted that a first cause must exist, why must it be
a god and not just a property or law of nature? Further, even if we
granted that a first cause must be a god, why must it be Aquinas' god
and not some other god? Aquinas' conclusion here appears to be nothing
but hand waving.
"We can't have full knowledge all at once. We must start by
believing; then afterwards we may be led on to master the evidence for
ourselves."
Again, he wants us to just believe, regardless of evidence.
Interestingly, the Buddhist, the Muslim, and the Hindu all say pretty
much the same thing. They all want us to just believe. Most people
take their advice and this is why we have hundreds of religions with
millions of followers and none of them can prove a damned thing. And
none of them thinks that matters. If science worked that way, we would
still be living in caves dreaming of creating fire.
Martin Luther (1483-1546 - was a German monk, priest, professor of
theology and iconic figure of the Protestant Reformation.):
"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. "
Should we ever follow one who defames reason? Could that ever be
reasonable? Luther is also credited with saying, "Reason is the enemy
of faith."
"I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist."
Did you get that? He is "certain!"
"You should not believe your conscience and your feelings more
than the word which the Lord who receives sinners preaches to you."
So, if the "word" the Lord preaches to me says homosexuals should be
killed (Leviticus 20:13), then I should just ignore my conscience? If
I "feel" that killing people who work on the Sabbath is wrong, then I
am in error because the "word" of the Bible preaches otherwise? This
sounds like the philosophy of a guy who thinks reason is the enemy of
faith.
John Calvin (1509-1564 - was the leading French Protestant Reformer
and the most important figure in the second generation of the
Protestant Reformation.):
"Knowledge of the sciences is so much smoke apart from the
heavenly science of Christ."
Right. And Jesus thought disease was caused by demons. Curiously, the
Harvard Medical School course catalogue no longer lists a course on
demon possession.
"Yet consider now, whether women are not quite past sense and
reason, when they want to rule over men."
So, Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, Queens Elizabeth I
and Victoria, and thousand of other women leaders all lacked sense and
reason? Calvin certainly gives Paul of Tarsus a run for his money when
it comes to misogyny.
These men are all widely considered by Christians to be great
thinkers. They are in large measure those who made the Christian
religion what it is today. But isn't it obvious, from their own words,
that each of them was foolish in one way or another?
Ah, you say, but what matters most are the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Surely Christ never said anything foolish? Think again.
"But I tell you, do not resist an evil person."
The people of Europe should not have resisted Hitler?
"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it
away. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw
it away."
This is where the profane is mistaken for the profound. Isn't this the
kind of advice you hope no one takes? If people really believed this
nonsense, wouldn't there be a whole lot more one-eyed, one-armed
people in this world?
"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will
eat or drink . . . Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or
reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them."
Jesus says, don't plan ahead, god will provide. Even squirrels know
this is foolish advice! And so does everyone else who seeks a good
education, buys insurance, or has a retirement plan.
"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their
mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of
men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the
kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him
receive it"
Well, there you go men, if you can handle it, just cut 'em off. This
is clearly sick, dangerous, nonsense advice which no one in his right
mind would take, and deserves no further comment.
And here's the bottom line, Jesus sometimes didn't even take his own
advice. He said, "But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger
of the fire of hell." Then he proceeds to call people fools. "Ye fools
and blind." (Matthew 23:17). Was he confused, or what?
Now, here is the elephant in the living room that Christians try their
best to ignore: even a casual reading of the New Testament proves
beyond a shadow of a doubt that neither Jesus Christ nor Paul had any
god-given inside knowledge of how the world works. Both stated over
and over that the "Kingdom of Heaven" was coming SOON, but, 2,000
years later it has still not arrived. That is not "soon." Clearly,
they were not relaying the wisdom of a god – so they had to be making
it up! Reverend Harold Camping twice predicted the end of the world in
2011, would you follow him and his teachings? No? Then how does it
make any sense to follow Jesus or Paul, who made the same mistake
multiple times?
Why book passage on a ship (or religion) designed by the deluded and
steered by the confused? I can think of no better real life example of
the ship of fools motif than the Christian religion.
The ship of fools is an allegory which depicts a vessel populated by
humans who are confused, frivolous, or deluded, and often ignorant of
their own course or destination. In the 15th and 16th centuries, the
ship of fools concept also served to parody the 'ark of salvation' as
the Catholic Church was sometimes called.
Ship of Fools
Ship of Fools (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
In some ways, the Titanic could be seen as a "ship of fools." The
designers of the ship, its owners, and its captain and crew were all
fools in one way or another, leading the doomed ship to a watery
grave. Following the disaster, two official inquiries, US and British,
reached similar conclusions; the number of lifeboats aboard was
inadequate, the Captain failed to take proper heed of ice warnings,
many of the lifeboats were only partially loaded when launched (due to
inadequate crew training), and the ship was steaming through a
dangerous area at too high a speed. The whole enterprise appears to be
a matter of leadership by fools.
The Christian religion is similar in many respects. Many of its
primary movers and shakers, the architects of much Christian dogma,
were – if not downright fools – decidedly odd individuals. Below, I
offer, in their own words, some of their own foolishness. I give extra
space to Paul because he is widely considered the chief architect of
Christianity - and because he said so darned many foolish things.
Paul of Tarsus:
"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for
there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that
exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists authority
resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur
judgment." - Letter to the Romans 13:1.
This is the principal of the "Divine Right of Kings." Here, Paul is
saying that one should always agree with one's political leader, even
a Hitler or Stalin.
In 1 Corinthians 1: 17, Paul claimed that God was anti-intellectual:
"Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in
the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, God
decided, through the foolishness of our proclamation, to save those
who believe."
So, to be wise in the ways of the world is foolish? And, science, the
process by which we learn how the world works, is a foolish
undertaking? My life was saved several years go by colon surgery. I'm
sure glad that surgeon ignored the "wisdom" of Paul.
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for
reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the
man of God may be perfect (complete, adequate, competent), equipped
for every good work." - 2 Tim. 3:16-17.
So, if all scripture is inspired by god, then we can be sure that god
really wants us to stop eating shellfish, wearing mixed fabrics, and
to kill homosexuals, adulterers, and people who work on Sunday? Could
it be that Paul didn't know what was in scripture quite as well as he
thought he did?
"Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give
satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to
pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in
everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior."
- Titus 2:9-10.
Apparently, if you're a slave then that is god's will, so you should
just shut up and enjoy it; easy to say, if you've never been a slave.
"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she
is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was
not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." -
1 Tim. 2: 9-15.
Thus, women are inferior because Eve was scammed by a talking snake.
Is that a good enough reason for you?
"I mean, brothers and sisters, the appointed time has grown short;
from now on, let even those who have wives be as though they had none.
. . For the present form of this world is passing away. - I
Corinthians 7: 29.
Here, Paul is suggesting that men abandon their wives because the
Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. His timing was off by over 2,000 years.
Was he a tad deluded, do ya think?
Tertullian (c.160-c.225 - has been called "the father of Latin
Christianity" and "the founder of Western theology."):
Speaking of the Resurrection of Christ, Tertullian wrote:
"I believe because it is absurd."
So, according to this great thinker, if something, anything, is
utterly preposterous, then it must be true? Maybe I just lack
imagination, but I can't think of a dumber reason to believe in
something.
Augustine (354-430 C.E. - was a Latin philosopher and theologian from
whose writings were very influential in the development of Western
Christianity.):
"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith
is to see what you believe."
This reminds me of that other fairy tale where Peter Pan says that if
you really believe, then you can fly. I particularly like Dan Barker's
take on this: "Faith is a cop-out. . . With faith, you don't have to
put any work into proving your case. You can 'just believe.' "
Augustine also wrote, "There is no possible source of evil except
good." And I'm sure you all know exactly what he meant by that.
Like many Christian writers, Augustine had a talent for confounding
the Bible's teaching. In one place he wrote, "God loves each of us as
if there were only one of us." And in another place he wrote, "He that
is jealous is not in love." Now, one of these statements MUST be
false, for Bible-god admits to being jealous.
Anselm (1033-1109 - is most famous in philosophy for the so-called
"ontological argument," and in theology for his doctrine of the
atonement):
In the ontological argument, Anselm defined God as the greatest
possible being we can conceive and argued that this being could exist
in the mind. He suggested that, if the greatest possible being exists
in the mind, it must also exist in reality. Numerous writers since
Anselm have shown that the ontological could be used to prove the
existence of anything, thus the argument has absurd consequences.
After all, Anselm is basically saying that if you can think it, then
it must exist, which is silly. Anselm seems to have confused
imagination with reality.
"I have written the little work that follows . . . in the role of
one who strives to raise his mind to the contemplation of God and one
who seeks to understand what he believes."
We could paraphrase thus: "There's stuff here I don't understand, but
I believe it anyway." Hardly the mark of a deep thinker, I'd say.
Aquinas (1225-1274 – considered by some to be the Catholic Church's
greatest theologian and philosopher):
"If forgers and malefactors are put to death by the secular power,
there is much more reason for excommunicating and even putting to
death one convicted of heresy."
So, if one doesn't believe as Aquinas believes, then he should be put
to death. Clearly he was a man of great morality and compassion. Don't
believe me? Well, Aquinas also said, "That the saints may enjoy their
beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to
see the punishment of the damned in hell." Who would have guessed that
hell was a spectator sport? And how do you suppose Aquinas knew this,
anyway?
"It is necessary to posit something which is necessary of itself,
and has no cause of its necessity outside of itself but is the cause
of necessity in other things. And all people call this thing God."
Aquinas is speaking here of what is usually termed a first cause:
i.e., the only cause which is not also an effect of a prior cause.
But, even if we granted that a first cause must exist, why must it be
a god and not just a property or law of nature? Further, even if we
granted that a first cause must be a god, why must it be Aquinas' god
and not some other god? Aquinas' conclusion here appears to be nothing
but hand waving.
"We can't have full knowledge all at once. We must start by
believing; then afterwards we may be led on to master the evidence for
ourselves."
Again, he wants us to just believe, regardless of evidence.
Interestingly, the Buddhist, the Muslim, and the Hindu all say pretty
much the same thing. They all want us to just believe. Most people
take their advice and this is why we have hundreds of religions with
millions of followers and none of them can prove a damned thing. And
none of them thinks that matters. If science worked that way, we would
still be living in caves dreaming of creating fire.
Martin Luther (1483-1546 - was a German monk, priest, professor of
theology and iconic figure of the Protestant Reformation.):
"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. "
Should we ever follow one who defames reason? Could that ever be
reasonable? Luther is also credited with saying, "Reason is the enemy
of faith."
"I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist."
Did you get that? He is "certain!"
"You should not believe your conscience and your feelings more
than the word which the Lord who receives sinners preaches to you."
So, if the "word" the Lord preaches to me says homosexuals should be
killed (Leviticus 20:13), then I should just ignore my conscience? If
I "feel" that killing people who work on the Sabbath is wrong, then I
am in error because the "word" of the Bible preaches otherwise? This
sounds like the philosophy of a guy who thinks reason is the enemy of
faith.
John Calvin (1509-1564 - was the leading French Protestant Reformer
and the most important figure in the second generation of the
Protestant Reformation.):
"Knowledge of the sciences is so much smoke apart from the
heavenly science of Christ."
Right. And Jesus thought disease was caused by demons. Curiously, the
Harvard Medical School course catalogue no longer lists a course on
demon possession.
"Yet consider now, whether women are not quite past sense and
reason, when they want to rule over men."
So, Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, Queens Elizabeth I
and Victoria, and thousand of other women leaders all lacked sense and
reason? Calvin certainly gives Paul of Tarsus a run for his money when
it comes to misogyny.
These men are all widely considered by Christians to be great
thinkers. They are in large measure those who made the Christian
religion what it is today. But isn't it obvious, from their own words,
that each of them was foolish in one way or another?
Ah, you say, but what matters most are the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Surely Christ never said anything foolish? Think again.
"But I tell you, do not resist an evil person."
The people of Europe should not have resisted Hitler?
"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it
away. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw
it away."
This is where the profane is mistaken for the profound. Isn't this the
kind of advice you hope no one takes? If people really believed this
nonsense, wouldn't there be a whole lot more one-eyed, one-armed
people in this world?
"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will
eat or drink . . . Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or
reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them."
Jesus says, don't plan ahead, god will provide. Even squirrels know
this is foolish advice! And so does everyone else who seeks a good
education, buys insurance, or has a retirement plan.
"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their
mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of
men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the
kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him
receive it"
Well, there you go men, if you can handle it, just cut 'em off. This
is clearly sick, dangerous, nonsense advice which no one in his right
mind would take, and deserves no further comment.
And here's the bottom line, Jesus sometimes didn't even take his own
advice. He said, "But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger
of the fire of hell." Then he proceeds to call people fools. "Ye fools
and blind." (Matthew 23:17). Was he confused, or what?
Now, here is the elephant in the living room that Christians try their
best to ignore: even a casual reading of the New Testament proves
beyond a shadow of a doubt that neither Jesus Christ nor Paul had any
god-given inside knowledge of how the world works. Both stated over
and over that the "Kingdom of Heaven" was coming SOON, but, 2,000
years later it has still not arrived. That is not "soon." Clearly,
they were not relaying the wisdom of a god – so they had to be making
it up! Reverend Harold Camping twice predicted the end of the world in
2011, would you follow him and his teachings? No? Then how does it
make any sense to follow Jesus or Paul, who made the same mistake
multiple times?
Why book passage on a ship (or religion) designed by the deluded and
steered by the confused? I can think of no better real life example of
the ship of fools motif than the Christian religion.
Wednesday 20 June 2012
God and Evil
By Cestlavie
My mother converted to Christianity when I was a baby. My father had
returned from his army tour in Okinawa and they moved far away from
her very large family. Things changed in their relationship and she
was alone much of the time. She found a Southern Baptist church and a
new extended family to fill the void. Consequently, the church was our
second home and we were there whenever the doors were open.
I remember getting "saved" when I was about 12. It was Easter Sunday
and the preacher gave a heart-rending sermon about what horrible
sinners we were and how God sacrificed his son, Jesus for our sins,
and what a horrible, painful death it was and it was all my fault for
being such a miserable sinner. I cried with the horror and shame of it
and ran to the front of the church begging forgiveness. I was no
stranger to shame, having been molested at the age of 6. And I'm
certain that a large part of the guilt and shame I felt growing up had
more to do with the despicable act of an adult, but I perceived it to
be my own failing as a human and spent my teenage years cowered in
guilt and shame for all the normal feelings and reactions of a
maturing young woman.
At the age of 17 I had enough, and when I left for college, I also
left the church for good with the realization that a God of love would
not give us the ability to feel the things we felt and then condemn us
simply for feeling them! That is simplifying it a bit, but that's
basically what I thought. Thus began my lifelong journey to sort out
the brainwashing of my youth from the truth. I can tell you that I am
still involved in that process; the training was insidious and turns
up when I least expect it. One of the biggest things I deal with today
is the concept of punishment. Having been through two bouts of breast
cancer, I'm sure I don't have to tell you that there is still a part
of my brain that thinks a god somewhere, whom I have forsaken, is
punishing me. And that everything bad that has happened in my life is
punishment for being such a wild child of the 70's. I know my mother
believes it is!
The whole idea of god fascinates me, I have to admit. As I see it, God
is a concept that we have developed to explain the mysteries of life
(that science can't yet explain), to symbolize all that is "good" and
just and fair, and whatever else we personally need a god to
symbolize. Satan is also a concept that explains all that is "evil"
and unfair in the world. Just as Santa Claus is very real to young
children, so are God and the Devil. But somehow, unlike Santa and the
Tooth Fairy, humans remain children when it comes to the concept of
gods. They are very real beings to most believers. (This would be
considered a mental health problem by most psychiatrists.)
Somewhere along the way, humans took the concept literally and their
god evolved into a self reflection, for lack of imagination I suppose.
He became jealous, judgmental, angry, vengeful (in fact, a lot of the
things that Satan was supposed to symbolize). What we have is a very
real and
dangerous god embodied by thousands of believers who need a real life
devil to hate. This is the god that has swept across the world,
destroying countless lives in his name, time after time. It is not a
benign belief system that does no harm, and in this sense god is
horribly, frighteningly real. I can no longer sit back and say
nothing. Their god has become my devil.
My mother converted to Christianity when I was a baby. My father had
returned from his army tour in Okinawa and they moved far away from
her very large family. Things changed in their relationship and she
was alone much of the time. She found a Southern Baptist church and a
new extended family to fill the void. Consequently, the church was our
second home and we were there whenever the doors were open.
I remember getting "saved" when I was about 12. It was Easter Sunday
and the preacher gave a heart-rending sermon about what horrible
sinners we were and how God sacrificed his son, Jesus for our sins,
and what a horrible, painful death it was and it was all my fault for
being such a miserable sinner. I cried with the horror and shame of it
and ran to the front of the church begging forgiveness. I was no
stranger to shame, having been molested at the age of 6. And I'm
certain that a large part of the guilt and shame I felt growing up had
more to do with the despicable act of an adult, but I perceived it to
be my own failing as a human and spent my teenage years cowered in
guilt and shame for all the normal feelings and reactions of a
maturing young woman.
At the age of 17 I had enough, and when I left for college, I also
left the church for good with the realization that a God of love would
not give us the ability to feel the things we felt and then condemn us
simply for feeling them! That is simplifying it a bit, but that's
basically what I thought. Thus began my lifelong journey to sort out
the brainwashing of my youth from the truth. I can tell you that I am
still involved in that process; the training was insidious and turns
up when I least expect it. One of the biggest things I deal with today
is the concept of punishment. Having been through two bouts of breast
cancer, I'm sure I don't have to tell you that there is still a part
of my brain that thinks a god somewhere, whom I have forsaken, is
punishing me. And that everything bad that has happened in my life is
punishment for being such a wild child of the 70's. I know my mother
believes it is!
The whole idea of god fascinates me, I have to admit. As I see it, God
is a concept that we have developed to explain the mysteries of life
(that science can't yet explain), to symbolize all that is "good" and
just and fair, and whatever else we personally need a god to
symbolize. Satan is also a concept that explains all that is "evil"
and unfair in the world. Just as Santa Claus is very real to young
children, so are God and the Devil. But somehow, unlike Santa and the
Tooth Fairy, humans remain children when it comes to the concept of
gods. They are very real beings to most believers. (This would be
considered a mental health problem by most psychiatrists.)
Somewhere along the way, humans took the concept literally and their
god evolved into a self reflection, for lack of imagination I suppose.
He became jealous, judgmental, angry, vengeful (in fact, a lot of the
things that Satan was supposed to symbolize). What we have is a very
real and
dangerous god embodied by thousands of believers who need a real life
devil to hate. This is the god that has swept across the world,
destroying countless lives in his name, time after time. It is not a
benign belief system that does no harm, and in this sense god is
horribly, frighteningly real. I can no longer sit back and say
nothing. Their god has become my devil.
Tuesday 19 June 2012
Some financial fact about Vatican
from http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/
Independent.co.uk
19 April 2002
Worldly assets
• The Vatican Bank, Istituto per le Opere di Religione, manages £2bn
of assets. It does not reveal its profits or dividends, which are paid
directly to the Pope. It enjoys the status of a central bank and has a
dealing room adorned with crucifixes and papal portraits where 20
traders work.
• Despite the Vatican's assets, including the art collection in the
Vatican Museum and the Sistine Chapel, it relies heavily on support
from American dioceses.
• The Pope owns more than 1,000 apartments in Rome. The Vatican's
property portfolio made a profit of 25.7bn lira in 1998, equivalent to
about £10m at the time.
• The Vatican had a balance of 2.5bn lira in 1998, then worth about
£1m. It had expenses of about 336bn lira (£106m) and income of about
338bn lira (£107m).
• The 2,500 officials of the Papal curia have a combined salary bill
of 140bn lira (£44m).
• The 20,000 parishes in America had revenues of $7.5bn (£5.18bn) )in
2000, of which $6.5bn went to cover expenses and $1bn subsidised
Catholic schools.
• In the 1980s the Vatican Bank was forced to pay $241m for its part
in the collapse of Banco Ambrosiano. Roberto Calvi, who had been
advising the Vatican over its dealings with the bank, was found
hanging from a rope beneath Blackfriars Bridge.
• Cardinal Roger Mahony of Los Angeles, the man tipped to be the first
American Pope, has been building a new cathedral for the past four
years. The cost is now estimated at almost $200m.
Independent.co.uk
19 April 2002
Worldly assets
• The Vatican Bank, Istituto per le Opere di Religione, manages £2bn
of assets. It does not reveal its profits or dividends, which are paid
directly to the Pope. It enjoys the status of a central bank and has a
dealing room adorned with crucifixes and papal portraits where 20
traders work.
• Despite the Vatican's assets, including the art collection in the
Vatican Museum and the Sistine Chapel, it relies heavily on support
from American dioceses.
• The Pope owns more than 1,000 apartments in Rome. The Vatican's
property portfolio made a profit of 25.7bn lira in 1998, equivalent to
about £10m at the time.
• The Vatican had a balance of 2.5bn lira in 1998, then worth about
£1m. It had expenses of about 336bn lira (£106m) and income of about
338bn lira (£107m).
• The 2,500 officials of the Papal curia have a combined salary bill
of 140bn lira (£44m).
• The 20,000 parishes in America had revenues of $7.5bn (£5.18bn) )in
2000, of which $6.5bn went to cover expenses and $1bn subsidised
Catholic schools.
• In the 1980s the Vatican Bank was forced to pay $241m for its part
in the collapse of Banco Ambrosiano. Roberto Calvi, who had been
advising the Vatican over its dealings with the bank, was found
hanging from a rope beneath Blackfriars Bridge.
• Cardinal Roger Mahony of Los Angeles, the man tipped to be the first
American Pope, has been building a new cathedral for the past four
years. The cost is now estimated at almost $200m.
Thursday 14 June 2012
why "the fall of men" story in the Bible was bullshit
By Rhonda Denise Johnson ~
I sometimes run into people who try to encourage me to visit a Church.
For a few years after diversion (April 2005), I had recurrent dreams
of being left in the Rapture. And let's face it, the music and
fellowship the Church offers can be quite enticing, especially in the
small town where I live, where if you don't go to Church there really
isn't too much to do. But the one solid thing that has sustained my
resolve to remain free is what I've read in the Bible. No matter how
sweet folks are, trying to "love me back into Church," no one can
un-write what was written, nor can I un-read what I read. I can
honestly go so far as to say that if it weren't for the Bible, I might
still be calling myself a Christian. Alas, the Bible is the foundation
of Christianity and although for a while, I thought I could maintain
my "relationship" with Jesus despite the problems in the Bible, in
time I had to admit this was neither honest nor logical. In a series
of articles, I'd like to share with you some of the things I found.
Haukipudas Church
Haukipudas Church (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
Problem with the Fall of Man Story
The story of the Fall of Man is central to Christianity. Without it,
the Church could not convince indigenous people that they need Jesus
to save them from sin. Beginning with Paul, missionaries often
encounter people whose moral code is obviously superior to that of
many Christians. The idea that all humans somehow inherited a sin
nature from Adam and therefore deserve hell, was a masterful stroke.
Yet, there are not one, but two fundamental problems inherent to the
whole idea of the Fall of Man. I won't make the argument people
usually make here. The idea that all of mankind should pay hellfire
for the crime of being born, is bad enough, but that's not what we
will discuss here. The two problems I will mention are: 1. Adam had no
way to know that what he was doing was wrong, 2. Paul is the only
biblical writer who holds all humanity accountable for Adams's sin.
Let's visit Adam in the Garden of Eden. Jehovah creates this guy but
does not give him the faculty to know good and evil. It doesn't even
say that Adam did not know how to distinguish good from evil. He
simply had no concept that some things were good and some evil.
Jehovah puts that knowledge in the fruit of a tree then tells the man
not to eat the fruit. Adam had no way to know that it was evil to
disobey God. In fact, he obeyed everybody. Like a child, Adam did what
God told him to do until somebody else came along and told him to do
something else. There was no wrestling with his conscience—no acting
against his better judgment. He had none.
Eve tells the serpent, "That's the forbidden fruit, which if we eat we
die." Apparently, it occurred to her that dying was perhaps something
she did not want to do. But nothing had ever died in her world, so she
had no real concept of death; otherwise, she would not have thought
the fruit was useful for food and wisdom. If someone gave you a plate
of carrots and told you it was poison, would you eat it? Would you
say, "Well, poison or not, it's still full of vitamins?" Only if
you're a baby who doesn't really know what poison is.
I have looked and from Genesis to the Book of Acts, I could not find
one reference linking us to Adam's sin. Something so cataclysmic that
it affected the entire human race and yet not one biblical writer
thought it worth writing about?Toddlers often don't do what we tell
them to do. They have to learn that obedience will keep them out of
trouble and disobedience will land them into trouble. No parent would
put a child in the electric chair the first time it disobeys. No one
would treat their dog that way, much less a child. Yet, that's all
Adam was, a child with no life experience. He could have been taught.
Life's experiences could have developed his conscience. Instead, God
renders the ultimate punishment the first time Adam disobeys. And this
ultimate punishment was not on Adam himself. For none of the
punishments outlined for Adam were eternal. According to the Church,
the ultimate payment for Adam's sin was levied on his descendents.
Where is the justice in this?
I have looked and from Genesis to the Book of Acts, I could not find
one reference linking us to Adam's sin. Something so cataclysmic that
it affected the entire human race and yet not one biblical writer
thought it worth writing about? How odd? Actually, the whole concept
could be called "Paulianity." After all, he calls it his gospel (2
Timothy 2:8). Indeed, the concept of inherited sin is his gospel and
does not exist anywhere else in the Bible outside his writings. The
concept is not in the Old Testament. Moses decrees that "the fathers
shall not be put to death for the sins of the sons, nor shall the sons
be put to death for the sins of the fathers, but every man shall be
put to death for his own sins." (Deuteronomy 24:16) Obviously, Paul
was not present when Jesus stood in the temple with the Old Testament
scriptures and said that not one jot of it would be changed 'til
heaven and Earth pass away. Neither can I find the concept in any of
the Gospels or the non-Pauline letters of the New Testament.
Preachers tell us we can't pick and choose what we want to believe in
the Bible. With this kind of contradiction, we have no other
alternative. How does one agree with a book that does not agree with
itself? How can Christians tell me that God never changes, and then
when I see discrepancies in the Bible, they tell me that God did
change? They tell us we are in a different dispensation now. Change by
any other name…. So under the dispensation of law I only had to worry
about paying for my own sin, but under the dispensation of grace I
suddenly need a savior to save me from someone else's sin, which I
would not be held accountable for if Paul weren't trying to find an
excuse to save me. This makes no sense.
I sometimes run into people who try to encourage me to visit a Church.
For a few years after diversion (April 2005), I had recurrent dreams
of being left in the Rapture. And let's face it, the music and
fellowship the Church offers can be quite enticing, especially in the
small town where I live, where if you don't go to Church there really
isn't too much to do. But the one solid thing that has sustained my
resolve to remain free is what I've read in the Bible. No matter how
sweet folks are, trying to "love me back into Church," no one can
un-write what was written, nor can I un-read what I read. I can
honestly go so far as to say that if it weren't for the Bible, I might
still be calling myself a Christian. Alas, the Bible is the foundation
of Christianity and although for a while, I thought I could maintain
my "relationship" with Jesus despite the problems in the Bible, in
time I had to admit this was neither honest nor logical. In a series
of articles, I'd like to share with you some of the things I found.
Haukipudas Church
Haukipudas Church (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
Problem with the Fall of Man Story
The story of the Fall of Man is central to Christianity. Without it,
the Church could not convince indigenous people that they need Jesus
to save them from sin. Beginning with Paul, missionaries often
encounter people whose moral code is obviously superior to that of
many Christians. The idea that all humans somehow inherited a sin
nature from Adam and therefore deserve hell, was a masterful stroke.
Yet, there are not one, but two fundamental problems inherent to the
whole idea of the Fall of Man. I won't make the argument people
usually make here. The idea that all of mankind should pay hellfire
for the crime of being born, is bad enough, but that's not what we
will discuss here. The two problems I will mention are: 1. Adam had no
way to know that what he was doing was wrong, 2. Paul is the only
biblical writer who holds all humanity accountable for Adams's sin.
Let's visit Adam in the Garden of Eden. Jehovah creates this guy but
does not give him the faculty to know good and evil. It doesn't even
say that Adam did not know how to distinguish good from evil. He
simply had no concept that some things were good and some evil.
Jehovah puts that knowledge in the fruit of a tree then tells the man
not to eat the fruit. Adam had no way to know that it was evil to
disobey God. In fact, he obeyed everybody. Like a child, Adam did what
God told him to do until somebody else came along and told him to do
something else. There was no wrestling with his conscience—no acting
against his better judgment. He had none.
Eve tells the serpent, "That's the forbidden fruit, which if we eat we
die." Apparently, it occurred to her that dying was perhaps something
she did not want to do. But nothing had ever died in her world, so she
had no real concept of death; otherwise, she would not have thought
the fruit was useful for food and wisdom. If someone gave you a plate
of carrots and told you it was poison, would you eat it? Would you
say, "Well, poison or not, it's still full of vitamins?" Only if
you're a baby who doesn't really know what poison is.
I have looked and from Genesis to the Book of Acts, I could not find
one reference linking us to Adam's sin. Something so cataclysmic that
it affected the entire human race and yet not one biblical writer
thought it worth writing about?Toddlers often don't do what we tell
them to do. They have to learn that obedience will keep them out of
trouble and disobedience will land them into trouble. No parent would
put a child in the electric chair the first time it disobeys. No one
would treat their dog that way, much less a child. Yet, that's all
Adam was, a child with no life experience. He could have been taught.
Life's experiences could have developed his conscience. Instead, God
renders the ultimate punishment the first time Adam disobeys. And this
ultimate punishment was not on Adam himself. For none of the
punishments outlined for Adam were eternal. According to the Church,
the ultimate payment for Adam's sin was levied on his descendents.
Where is the justice in this?
I have looked and from Genesis to the Book of Acts, I could not find
one reference linking us to Adam's sin. Something so cataclysmic that
it affected the entire human race and yet not one biblical writer
thought it worth writing about? How odd? Actually, the whole concept
could be called "Paulianity." After all, he calls it his gospel (2
Timothy 2:8). Indeed, the concept of inherited sin is his gospel and
does not exist anywhere else in the Bible outside his writings. The
concept is not in the Old Testament. Moses decrees that "the fathers
shall not be put to death for the sins of the sons, nor shall the sons
be put to death for the sins of the fathers, but every man shall be
put to death for his own sins." (Deuteronomy 24:16) Obviously, Paul
was not present when Jesus stood in the temple with the Old Testament
scriptures and said that not one jot of it would be changed 'til
heaven and Earth pass away. Neither can I find the concept in any of
the Gospels or the non-Pauline letters of the New Testament.
Preachers tell us we can't pick and choose what we want to believe in
the Bible. With this kind of contradiction, we have no other
alternative. How does one agree with a book that does not agree with
itself? How can Christians tell me that God never changes, and then
when I see discrepancies in the Bible, they tell me that God did
change? They tell us we are in a different dispensation now. Change by
any other name…. So under the dispensation of law I only had to worry
about paying for my own sin, but under the dispensation of grace I
suddenly need a savior to save me from someone else's sin, which I
would not be held accountable for if Paul weren't trying to find an
excuse to save me. This makes no sense.
story of a former homosexual Christian
By ErikJMS
It was a long time ago, but I swear I never meant to get this old and
it is disorienting to finally have hit forty, and then forty-one, ...
and then forty-nine, and now fifty, especially since I was supposed to
kill myself at twenty-five.
The story is a little complicated, but I am going to jump into the
middle of it and see how long I can stay afloat for this episode.
Things that are useful to know about me from the start:
When I was born my body was such that I was declared a girl, but I got
it in my head that I was a boy by the time I was three. A bunch of
childhood trauma drove that realization into hiding, so I came out as
a dyke after high school, somewhat gradually from about 1979-1982.
Then in about 1995 I sort of remembered that I wished to be
male-bodied, and in 1997 I started taking testosterone and
transitioned from female-appearing to male-appearing. My actual gender
identity became a bit fuzzy after transitioning, but I call myself a
transsexual male when pressed for something specific.
I was sexually abused and raped by a family member at age 11 and raped
by a stranger at age 12. That was the trauma, or about half of it. I
did not tell anyone about the stranger rape until I was 20, and I kept
the family molestation a secret for a few more years after that. I
have PTSD from that and from growing up threatened with the Lake of
Fire and the Rapture.
I am psychiatrically disabled, in part from the PTSD and in part from
a recurrent severe depression. My last big crash was the winter of
1997-98 and I am still recovering and might be for the rest of my
life. This last crash earned my diagnosis the tag of "with psychotic
features." There were voices, but they weren't hallucinations. I have
a very vivid imagination, and that became their echo chamber.
I am one of those tentatively self-diagnosed autism spectrum adults. I
am more introverted than anyone I have ever met anywhere at any time,
I was late learning to talk, and I have sensory problems and severe
social phobias around specific types of interactions. I do not have
any money to pay for an assessment now; when I was a child in the 60s
and 70s, autism was not something that was screened for unless one
were extremely non-functional.
So there's some background. You might be able to guess the story just
from those starting conditions, but I will fill in some details
anyway.
I was transplanted from the Pacific NW of the US to the Deep South at
the age of two. My parents had become born-again Xians sometime before
I was born. I don't really know much about how that happened, but when
we moved to Georgia they started attending Baptist churches and
eventually settled on Southern Baptist doctrine. The church they chose
was evangelical and about as fundamentalist as you could get:
everything in the Bible was literally true, cigarettes and alcohol
were tools of Satan, and homosexuality was so taboo it wasn't even
considered a remote possibility for a living, breathing person.
My parents took us kids to a church play when I was about six, I
think. It depicted the Last Judgment, where the "lost" were thrown
through a tinfoil covered doorway into "hell" and went screaming their
heads off through dry ice smoke, red flashing lights, and roaring
thunder. I think there were stairs leading down; "hell" was probably
the church basement.
I was scared shitless. Was that going to happen to me? No, or at least
not yet. I do not recall my mom's precise explanation except that I
think I was told I was too young to understand and I did not have to
worry about hell until I was old enough to understand. I started
worrying anyway because what I understood at that point was that
eventually I was going to be looking at that door myself, somehow.
A couple of years later I was in fourth grade, and I found a Jack
Chick tract in my classroom one afternoon: "The Beast." If you haven't
read it, you can find it at the Jack Chick website and it looks now
exactly what it looked like then. Mobile guillotines were depicted
beheading people who were left behind after the rapture and who
refused the Mark of the Beast. This was the only way to be saved after
the rapture.
I was scared shitless. I had never heard about any of this part of the
religion I was being taught. In Sunday School we got Old Testament
stories and during church services I drew pictures on the bulletin.
This was all brand new stuff. I asked my mom if she would explain this
tract to me and we sat down to read it together and she basically said
that although the details might not be exact, it was all true. This
was really going to happen, and I really would be left behind if I
were not yet saved.
I was eight years old, and I would be left behind, because my family
were all saved by that time. Sit with that for a bit.
The way to be saved at our church was to walk the aisle, alone, at the
end of the service, during the invitation. I'm sure most of you are
familiar with the ritual. When you got there you talked to the
preacher about whatever was "on your heart," but they emphasized
coming forward to be saved.
Our altar calls were subdued affairs; we did not do all the
pentocostal speaking in tongues stuff, but given my introversion and
fear of strangers (the preacher was as good as a stranger to me), I
was literally frozen in terror at the thought of walking up there all
that by myself while everyone watched. Nobody ever offered to walk
with me. Apparently it was not genuine or something if you didn't do
it by yourself.
Time passed. I was molested and raped and stayed silent about it. I
tell people had I stopped speaking altogether by the time I was 15,
which is true in some ways, but that would be getting ahead of the
story. During this time I became more and more obsessed with the
threat of being left behind. My parents bought the Hal Lindsey books.
I read them. I was certain that the rapture was going to happen at any
moment. If I was home alone and the rest of the family was late, I
would panic, sure that the rapture had happened and that I was going
to have to face the mobile guillotines if I wanted to be saved then.
It would be too late for the "easy" way.
I prayed every night. I accepted Jesus into my heart over and over,
but it never "took" because I was convinced that one was not saved
until one walked, and so I did not feel anything because I knew what I
really had to do. But walking scared me more than the rapture did,
apparently, because I could not make myself do it.
I think I must have been about 13 when my parents invited some of the
church ladies over to our house for the express purpose of saving me,
or giving me the "push" that I obviously "needed," or something. This
part of the story I really don't like to talk about, because it was
embarrassing to have to tell these ladies that yes I believed all that
you just read out of the Bible but no I hadn't walked yet. It was a
revival week, I think, or maybe it was just a Sunday afternoon--we
went to church Sunday mornings and Sunday evenings, every week.
Whatever day it was, there was church that night, and it was
understood that I would be walking.
I did. It was awful. I felt like I had been exposed and betrayed by
these people who claimed to love me, and here I was in front of the
church in all my shame. An endless line of people would queue to talk
and shake hands with all who had answered the altar call when the
service ended. Kisses from perfumed church ladies. Hugs from tobacco
smoked men (we were not sure they were really saved). Everyone touched
me in some way and I did not want them touching me at all.
I won't say I wasn't relieved--I was! I would not be left behind now.
But the whole experience was so twisted and protracted that when I
went into my near-psychosis in 97-98, the screaming voices in my head
eventually morphed into church ladies and preachers who told me that I
had to come back to the fold. That was the extent of my conditioning,
the depth of the grooves worn into my brain by an obsessive terror
that lasted almost my whole childhood.
There was other emotional abuse too, but this represented the worst of
it. Once I was saved, then the sermons that affected me the most were
those which said we had to witness to others (yes I was way too shy to
do anything of the sort) and those which said that any lag in what
should be our constant joy as born-again Christians was our own fault
for some sin or impure thought or another. I stopped obsessing about
the rapture and started obsessing over the numerous indications of my
unworthiness.
I say I stopped talking at 15. I was starting to slip into my first
recognized bout of depression (my first unrecognized bout occurred
when I was eight). Every night I prayed for help but none came. Just
more shaming sermons that convinced me this was all my fault. I began
to despair.
By the time I was 16 I was beginning to see through all the
double-binds and circular reasoning that had been used against me my
whole life. I had begun to note that although g*d was said to answer
every prayer, he seemed not to respond to mine. The catch phrase used
to cover all cases was, "g*d always answers prayer; sometimes the
answer is 'no'", but I began to wonder about a supposedly
compassionate g*d who was apparently ignoring me while I slipped off
into silent grief and bewilderment.
I think I will stop here for now. Tell me, if you have any thoughts on
the subject, how you might suppose I might have been doing around this
time. I came home to an empty house; both of my parents were working
by then. At times the person who had molested me would be there. The
molestation itself had stopped for me. In the spring and summer we had
tremendous thunderstorms and I felt like the lightning had it in for
me personally.
Well, I survived. I will say that much. And eventually I decided that
the church's doctrine was far too small for me. But right now I am
tired.
Hi!
It was a long time ago, but I swear I never meant to get this old and
it is disorienting to finally have hit forty, and then forty-one, ...
and then forty-nine, and now fifty, especially since I was supposed to
kill myself at twenty-five.
The story is a little complicated, but I am going to jump into the
middle of it and see how long I can stay afloat for this episode.
Things that are useful to know about me from the start:
When I was born my body was such that I was declared a girl, but I got
it in my head that I was a boy by the time I was three. A bunch of
childhood trauma drove that realization into hiding, so I came out as
a dyke after high school, somewhat gradually from about 1979-1982.
Then in about 1995 I sort of remembered that I wished to be
male-bodied, and in 1997 I started taking testosterone and
transitioned from female-appearing to male-appearing. My actual gender
identity became a bit fuzzy after transitioning, but I call myself a
transsexual male when pressed for something specific.
I was sexually abused and raped by a family member at age 11 and raped
by a stranger at age 12. That was the trauma, or about half of it. I
did not tell anyone about the stranger rape until I was 20, and I kept
the family molestation a secret for a few more years after that. I
have PTSD from that and from growing up threatened with the Lake of
Fire and the Rapture.
I am psychiatrically disabled, in part from the PTSD and in part from
a recurrent severe depression. My last big crash was the winter of
1997-98 and I am still recovering and might be for the rest of my
life. This last crash earned my diagnosis the tag of "with psychotic
features." There were voices, but they weren't hallucinations. I have
a very vivid imagination, and that became their echo chamber.
I am one of those tentatively self-diagnosed autism spectrum adults. I
am more introverted than anyone I have ever met anywhere at any time,
I was late learning to talk, and I have sensory problems and severe
social phobias around specific types of interactions. I do not have
any money to pay for an assessment now; when I was a child in the 60s
and 70s, autism was not something that was screened for unless one
were extremely non-functional.
So there's some background. You might be able to guess the story just
from those starting conditions, but I will fill in some details
anyway.
I was transplanted from the Pacific NW of the US to the Deep South at
the age of two. My parents had become born-again Xians sometime before
I was born. I don't really know much about how that happened, but when
we moved to Georgia they started attending Baptist churches and
eventually settled on Southern Baptist doctrine. The church they chose
was evangelical and about as fundamentalist as you could get:
everything in the Bible was literally true, cigarettes and alcohol
were tools of Satan, and homosexuality was so taboo it wasn't even
considered a remote possibility for a living, breathing person.
My parents took us kids to a church play when I was about six, I
think. It depicted the Last Judgment, where the "lost" were thrown
through a tinfoil covered doorway into "hell" and went screaming their
heads off through dry ice smoke, red flashing lights, and roaring
thunder. I think there were stairs leading down; "hell" was probably
the church basement.
I was scared shitless. Was that going to happen to me? No, or at least
not yet. I do not recall my mom's precise explanation except that I
think I was told I was too young to understand and I did not have to
worry about hell until I was old enough to understand. I started
worrying anyway because what I understood at that point was that
eventually I was going to be looking at that door myself, somehow.
A couple of years later I was in fourth grade, and I found a Jack
Chick tract in my classroom one afternoon: "The Beast." If you haven't
read it, you can find it at the Jack Chick website and it looks now
exactly what it looked like then. Mobile guillotines were depicted
beheading people who were left behind after the rapture and who
refused the Mark of the Beast. This was the only way to be saved after
the rapture.
I was scared shitless. I had never heard about any of this part of the
religion I was being taught. In Sunday School we got Old Testament
stories and during church services I drew pictures on the bulletin.
This was all brand new stuff. I asked my mom if she would explain this
tract to me and we sat down to read it together and she basically said
that although the details might not be exact, it was all true. This
was really going to happen, and I really would be left behind if I
were not yet saved.
I was eight years old, and I would be left behind, because my family
were all saved by that time. Sit with that for a bit.
The way to be saved at our church was to walk the aisle, alone, at the
end of the service, during the invitation. I'm sure most of you are
familiar with the ritual. When you got there you talked to the
preacher about whatever was "on your heart," but they emphasized
coming forward to be saved.
Our altar calls were subdued affairs; we did not do all the
pentocostal speaking in tongues stuff, but given my introversion and
fear of strangers (the preacher was as good as a stranger to me), I
was literally frozen in terror at the thought of walking up there all
that by myself while everyone watched. Nobody ever offered to walk
with me. Apparently it was not genuine or something if you didn't do
it by yourself.
Time passed. I was molested and raped and stayed silent about it. I
tell people had I stopped speaking altogether by the time I was 15,
which is true in some ways, but that would be getting ahead of the
story. During this time I became more and more obsessed with the
threat of being left behind. My parents bought the Hal Lindsey books.
I read them. I was certain that the rapture was going to happen at any
moment. If I was home alone and the rest of the family was late, I
would panic, sure that the rapture had happened and that I was going
to have to face the mobile guillotines if I wanted to be saved then.
It would be too late for the "easy" way.
I prayed every night. I accepted Jesus into my heart over and over,
but it never "took" because I was convinced that one was not saved
until one walked, and so I did not feel anything because I knew what I
really had to do. But walking scared me more than the rapture did,
apparently, because I could not make myself do it.
I think I must have been about 13 when my parents invited some of the
church ladies over to our house for the express purpose of saving me,
or giving me the "push" that I obviously "needed," or something. This
part of the story I really don't like to talk about, because it was
embarrassing to have to tell these ladies that yes I believed all that
you just read out of the Bible but no I hadn't walked yet. It was a
revival week, I think, or maybe it was just a Sunday afternoon--we
went to church Sunday mornings and Sunday evenings, every week.
Whatever day it was, there was church that night, and it was
understood that I would be walking.
I did. It was awful. I felt like I had been exposed and betrayed by
these people who claimed to love me, and here I was in front of the
church in all my shame. An endless line of people would queue to talk
and shake hands with all who had answered the altar call when the
service ended. Kisses from perfumed church ladies. Hugs from tobacco
smoked men (we were not sure they were really saved). Everyone touched
me in some way and I did not want them touching me at all.
I won't say I wasn't relieved--I was! I would not be left behind now.
But the whole experience was so twisted and protracted that when I
went into my near-psychosis in 97-98, the screaming voices in my head
eventually morphed into church ladies and preachers who told me that I
had to come back to the fold. That was the extent of my conditioning,
the depth of the grooves worn into my brain by an obsessive terror
that lasted almost my whole childhood.
There was other emotional abuse too, but this represented the worst of
it. Once I was saved, then the sermons that affected me the most were
those which said we had to witness to others (yes I was way too shy to
do anything of the sort) and those which said that any lag in what
should be our constant joy as born-again Christians was our own fault
for some sin or impure thought or another. I stopped obsessing about
the rapture and started obsessing over the numerous indications of my
unworthiness.
I say I stopped talking at 15. I was starting to slip into my first
recognized bout of depression (my first unrecognized bout occurred
when I was eight). Every night I prayed for help but none came. Just
more shaming sermons that convinced me this was all my fault. I began
to despair.
By the time I was 16 I was beginning to see through all the
double-binds and circular reasoning that had been used against me my
whole life. I had begun to note that although g*d was said to answer
every prayer, he seemed not to respond to mine. The catch phrase used
to cover all cases was, "g*d always answers prayer; sometimes the
answer is 'no'", but I began to wonder about a supposedly
compassionate g*d who was apparently ignoring me while I slipped off
into silent grief and bewilderment.
I think I will stop here for now. Tell me, if you have any thoughts on
the subject, how you might suppose I might have been doing around this
time. I came home to an empty house; both of my parents were working
by then. At times the person who had molested me would be there. The
molestation itself had stopped for me. In the spring and summer we had
tremendous thunderstorms and I felt like the lightning had it in for
me personally.
Well, I survived. I will say that much. And eventually I decided that
the church's doctrine was far too small for me. But right now I am
tired.
Hi!
Monday 11 June 2012
if you meet Buddha on the road, kill him
"if you meet Buddha on the road, kill him"
That was a famous teaching from Buddhism itself. What does it mean?
There are people who owned expensive mountain bike. They also owned expensive helmet, cycling gear and almost 100 cycling magazines. But they carried their bike on a SUV. Go to some remote places, and cycling for few kilometers, and go home with SUV. Are they cyclist ? A big NO.
But there are old people who owned a very cheap bicycle. They cycling for 20 kms per day. They are the REAL cyclist.
Let's look at Christians.
There are many who went to church 3 times per week. Know the verses of the Bible by heart. They thought they knew everything about life and universe.
They even truely believe that they are going to heaven and all the others are going to hell because they experienced a feeling called "born again".
But they only love their own kind.
They dig out every other errors and mistakes from other religion and people and enjoyed exposing it. But they forgot they are the biggest jerk.
They are so arrogance because they believed they are going to heaven. So arrogant that they don't have friends and even spouse. Nobody like them.
They are not followers of Christ, they are hypocrites.
That was a famous teaching from Buddhism itself. What does it mean?
There are people who owned expensive mountain bike. They also owned expensive helmet, cycling gear and almost 100 cycling magazines. But they carried their bike on a SUV. Go to some remote places, and cycling for few kilometers, and go home with SUV. Are they cyclist ? A big NO.
But there are old people who owned a very cheap bicycle. They cycling for 20 kms per day. They are the REAL cyclist.
Let's look at Christians.
There are many who went to church 3 times per week. Know the verses of the Bible by heart. They thought they knew everything about life and universe.
They even truely believe that they are going to heaven and all the others are going to hell because they experienced a feeling called "born again".
But they only love their own kind.
They dig out every other errors and mistakes from other religion and people and enjoyed exposing it. But they forgot they are the biggest jerk.
They are so arrogance because they believed they are going to heaven. So arrogant that they don't have friends and even spouse. Nobody like them.
They are not followers of Christ, they are hypocrites.
Sunday 10 June 2012
why Bible is fake
If you have watched the movie Dumbo, you will be amused by how it
explained where baby came from to little kids.
It show that the angel drop down small baby to mother who asking for children.
Bible is also the same. It used lies to explain thing to people who
cannot accept reality or too stupid to accept it.
Believing in something that was written 2000 years ago by someone who
doesn't even knew that the earth orbit the sun and there was dinosaurs
is not just silly.
It was madness.
Just read the story in this blog and you will discover how all this
Bible bullshit destroyed human life.
But the greatest evidence that the Bible is fake came from Christians
themselves. Just look at how bad their character is and how silly and
evil their mind is.
explained where baby came from to little kids.
It show that the angel drop down small baby to mother who asking for children.
Bible is also the same. It used lies to explain thing to people who
cannot accept reality or too stupid to accept it.
Believing in something that was written 2000 years ago by someone who
doesn't even knew that the earth orbit the sun and there was dinosaurs
is not just silly.
It was madness.
Just read the story in this blog and you will discover how all this
Bible bullshit destroyed human life.
But the greatest evidence that the Bible is fake came from Christians
themselves. Just look at how bad their character is and how silly and
evil their mind is.
Evolution - No God in the making
By Carls S ~
There's another term for "intelligent design" - "Not Paying
Attention." Home schooling is the last-ditch effort to keep kids from
finding out how Nature really works. Huge blinders are required and
denial is indoctrinated. Talk about failure to evolve and adapt!
The ligne is still used by French and Swiss wa...
The ligne is still used by French and Swiss watchmakers (Photo credit:
Wikipedia)
Darwin first started thinking about evolution by noting how breeders
and plant hybridizers selected for certain traits, with results such
as beefier cattle, faster race horses, splendid flowers, larger,
tastier fruits, etc.
Humans design for purposes, but evolution is not itself designed.
Natural selection is a hit-and-miss system, with a lot of misses
strewn all along the trips, and what's left is just practical enough
to get by. Adapt or perish is usually the prime criteria. There's no
designer designing nature. And what's the "purpose" of a black widow
spider, a 17 year locust, newly-discovered crabs deep in the ocean at
poisonous vents, planet quakes on nearby planets, billions of stars?
"Choice" is not a word you would use to describe their existence.
"Chaos" would be more realistic, honest.
During the few years my brothers and I spent in parochial school, we
were taught that, "God created us, and each of us had a purpose"
(outside of the obvious eventual purpose to be with him in heaven).
"Guidance" through the school years consisted in telling us how, as
individuals, just what directions God was guiding us in making choices
according to his wishes. In other words, "God has a plan for you,"
because after all, you were specifically designed to follow that plan,
that intelligently designed purpose for us, one and all. Surely, this
is a very "romantic" and reassuring way to answer life's multiple
questions and demands - one size fits all? (Don't laugh; millions
ascribe to this.) This "explanation" is itself a construct of
imaginations, except that it is by nature, incompatible with nature,
which couldn't care less what you believe, and goes on doing what it
does; you work with it. Nature has no intelligent purpose, and we are
ALL of nature, made up of all the elements of the universe, subject to
change, circumstances, bodily limits, limitations on what we can
change for our purposes. We, too, design, procreate, make tools, and
survive through adaptation and thinking, just like most organisms. If
we didn't, we wouldn't last.
The fossil record shows us that all previous species on this earth
ultimately failed. My father made a very good living adapting and
designing large scale equipment for earth-moving equipment. If he had
a similar 99+% failure rate, his family would have starved to death;
i.e., he would have been an "Intelligent Designer." If you could
compare the corn Columbus found, eaten by native Americans, with the
corn you eat today, you would see and taste the results of manipulated
hybridization, and it becomes obvious that there is no designer behind
it doing it 'right' in the first place. As that farmer being told to
"thank God" for his abundant crops said, "You should have seen it when
God ran the place alone." The very process of human tampering is
necessary to make food more fruitful, tasty, abundant - evidence of
it's inadequacy in the first place.
So, wait just a damned minute, before you go any further. Whatever
your purpose in giving MY life a purpose is, I'm skeptical. Like a
non-trusting Pinocchio, I'm not entering your Pleasureland, lest I
become a beast of burden ass, a trained slave to no purposes than
those of others. And no one else should, either. Nature and my nature
don't work that way. Are we not the designers of our own mental lives?
There's another term for "intelligent design" - "Not Paying
Attention." Home schooling is the last-ditch effort to keep kids from
finding out how Nature really works. Huge blinders are required and
denial is indoctrinated. Talk about failure to evolve and adapt!
The ligne is still used by French and Swiss wa...
The ligne is still used by French and Swiss watchmakers (Photo credit:
Wikipedia)
Darwin first started thinking about evolution by noting how breeders
and plant hybridizers selected for certain traits, with results such
as beefier cattle, faster race horses, splendid flowers, larger,
tastier fruits, etc.
Humans design for purposes, but evolution is not itself designed.
Natural selection is a hit-and-miss system, with a lot of misses
strewn all along the trips, and what's left is just practical enough
to get by. Adapt or perish is usually the prime criteria. There's no
designer designing nature. And what's the "purpose" of a black widow
spider, a 17 year locust, newly-discovered crabs deep in the ocean at
poisonous vents, planet quakes on nearby planets, billions of stars?
"Choice" is not a word you would use to describe their existence.
"Chaos" would be more realistic, honest.
During the few years my brothers and I spent in parochial school, we
were taught that, "God created us, and each of us had a purpose"
(outside of the obvious eventual purpose to be with him in heaven).
"Guidance" through the school years consisted in telling us how, as
individuals, just what directions God was guiding us in making choices
according to his wishes. In other words, "God has a plan for you,"
because after all, you were specifically designed to follow that plan,
that intelligently designed purpose for us, one and all. Surely, this
is a very "romantic" and reassuring way to answer life's multiple
questions and demands - one size fits all? (Don't laugh; millions
ascribe to this.) This "explanation" is itself a construct of
imaginations, except that it is by nature, incompatible with nature,
which couldn't care less what you believe, and goes on doing what it
does; you work with it. Nature has no intelligent purpose, and we are
ALL of nature, made up of all the elements of the universe, subject to
change, circumstances, bodily limits, limitations on what we can
change for our purposes. We, too, design, procreate, make tools, and
survive through adaptation and thinking, just like most organisms. If
we didn't, we wouldn't last.
The fossil record shows us that all previous species on this earth
ultimately failed. My father made a very good living adapting and
designing large scale equipment for earth-moving equipment. If he had
a similar 99+% failure rate, his family would have starved to death;
i.e., he would have been an "Intelligent Designer." If you could
compare the corn Columbus found, eaten by native Americans, with the
corn you eat today, you would see and taste the results of manipulated
hybridization, and it becomes obvious that there is no designer behind
it doing it 'right' in the first place. As that farmer being told to
"thank God" for his abundant crops said, "You should have seen it when
God ran the place alone." The very process of human tampering is
necessary to make food more fruitful, tasty, abundant - evidence of
it's inadequacy in the first place.
So, wait just a damned minute, before you go any further. Whatever
your purpose in giving MY life a purpose is, I'm skeptical. Like a
non-trusting Pinocchio, I'm not entering your Pleasureland, lest I
become a beast of burden ass, a trained slave to no purposes than
those of others. And no one else should, either. Nature and my nature
don't work that way. Are we not the designers of our own mental lives?
Hey God, I am OK
By Dano ~
Every now and then I find myself wondering if there really is a way to
communicate with whatever force that caused us to exist. The thought
that I just might accidentally stumble upon a way to ask our creator
for favors, and get answers is a reoccurring, futile mental exercise,
that I delve into on occasion. The simple answer, to which, I suspect,
has always been right in front of me all along.
Big Bang!!!
Big Bang!!! (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
Perhaps we are already in communication, by default with whatever
pulled the trigger for the 'Big Bang'. Maybe in that millisecond of
pure energy explosion, we became a part of whatever is, was, or ever
will be. We were preordained to evolve from slime on some prehistoric
beach, and be made of the stuff of the universe.
I keep thinking that life has been difficult for some time now and I
sure would like to hit the god lottery. I've thought and thought about
it, and even looked at the writings of those who claim to speak to the
guy who made us, but to no avail. None of them appear sane enough to
me that I would want to emulate their success. Maybe it's just that
they are so entwined in the bliss that they claim has been bestowed
upon them by the big guy in the sky, that they are willing to forsake
all rational and critical thought, and just want to wallow in the
splendor of their success.
I'm sure you know a few folks who will tell you that their faith in,
say, Bible God and Jesus, is all that matters to them. I am sure that
if I had to become as gullible as a child, as the bible recommends in
several verses of that "GOOD BOOK", and had to give up the cherished
skepticism that has served me so well these many years, that I not
only would become poor in material wealth, but my mind would
degenerate into the same disconnected, circular, credulous way
thinking that I see in all Jesus freaks and bible-thumpers. No I just
instinctively , and logically feel that whatever god is, It is above
all else, by necessity, rational.
God in my humble opinion, certainly wouldn't look like, act, or
demonstrate any of the qualities of a human male. (Maybe a female)
Humans kill each other for frivolous reasons, are jealous,
narcissistic, vain, greedy and need to be loved -- qualities that a
god would have no need to possess. The fictional "Bible-god" has all
of these deficits and more.
I'm not the first person to hope that I will be rewarded somehow for
remaining true to the belief that everything is as it should be, and
that any force powerful enough to explode everything from that
infinitesimally small speck of matter with the potential of becoming
our universe, wants no part of our attempts to trivialize our
beginning with the self relevant, pathetic, magical, mystical,
cartoonish concepts of the Bible, and its anthropomorphic, very
flawed, main character.
I'm sorry to report at this writing that life is still a mystery to
me, and the older I get, not having a clue as to what or why "It" put
us here, is starting to somehow be OK with me.
Every now and then I find myself wondering if there really is a way to
communicate with whatever force that caused us to exist. The thought
that I just might accidentally stumble upon a way to ask our creator
for favors, and get answers is a reoccurring, futile mental exercise,
that I delve into on occasion. The simple answer, to which, I suspect,
has always been right in front of me all along.
Big Bang!!!
Big Bang!!! (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
Perhaps we are already in communication, by default with whatever
pulled the trigger for the 'Big Bang'. Maybe in that millisecond of
pure energy explosion, we became a part of whatever is, was, or ever
will be. We were preordained to evolve from slime on some prehistoric
beach, and be made of the stuff of the universe.
I keep thinking that life has been difficult for some time now and I
sure would like to hit the god lottery. I've thought and thought about
it, and even looked at the writings of those who claim to speak to the
guy who made us, but to no avail. None of them appear sane enough to
me that I would want to emulate their success. Maybe it's just that
they are so entwined in the bliss that they claim has been bestowed
upon them by the big guy in the sky, that they are willing to forsake
all rational and critical thought, and just want to wallow in the
splendor of their success.
I'm sure you know a few folks who will tell you that their faith in,
say, Bible God and Jesus, is all that matters to them. I am sure that
if I had to become as gullible as a child, as the bible recommends in
several verses of that "GOOD BOOK", and had to give up the cherished
skepticism that has served me so well these many years, that I not
only would become poor in material wealth, but my mind would
degenerate into the same disconnected, circular, credulous way
thinking that I see in all Jesus freaks and bible-thumpers. No I just
instinctively , and logically feel that whatever god is, It is above
all else, by necessity, rational.
God in my humble opinion, certainly wouldn't look like, act, or
demonstrate any of the qualities of a human male. (Maybe a female)
Humans kill each other for frivolous reasons, are jealous,
narcissistic, vain, greedy and need to be loved -- qualities that a
god would have no need to possess. The fictional "Bible-god" has all
of these deficits and more.
I'm not the first person to hope that I will be rewarded somehow for
remaining true to the belief that everything is as it should be, and
that any force powerful enough to explode everything from that
infinitesimally small speck of matter with the potential of becoming
our universe, wants no part of our attempts to trivialize our
beginning with the self relevant, pathetic, magical, mystical,
cartoonish concepts of the Bible, and its anthropomorphic, very
flawed, main character.
I'm sorry to report at this writing that life is still a mystery to
me, and the older I get, not having a clue as to what or why "It" put
us here, is starting to somehow be OK with me.
conversion from Christian to a healthy person
By Joseph
My story of my conversion from Christian to Critical Thinker:
This will not be a list of the contradictions that show the
reasonability of my unbelief, but more of a personal background and
narrative.
I, like many, was raised in "christian home". Religious activity was a
formative part of our family life, going to church/youth
group/lock-ins etc. We prayed before meals and before bed time.
I converted to Christianity at the age of 15. I was part of a youth
group that had a annual meeting every year called Ascension
Convention.
This is was the solidifying follow up to a conversion experience that
preyed on my fatherless home trauma. In this meeting I was shown how
to be drunk in the holy spirit. which I know now I faked, but this is
the beginning of the damage.
The modern church, with their emphasis on entertainment and fun, is
only there to sweeten the tart cautionary tale of the gospel. Believe
or suffer.
(the medieval church wasn't entertaining teens, they were scaring them
half to death by oppressing secular ideas and threatening actions)
My oh my how the modern church has evolved.
I was totally apart, my entire basis of friends and community was not
based on what we liked to do or similar interests but instead all
interaction
was predicated on the union of belief. We believed first and then
interacted. Now, I had a lot of fun and lived a relatively un
controversial life.
Except for an average amount of friction with my mom about regular
teenage things I had good relationships.
I continued my growth in the faith by becoming a veracious reader of
Christian apologetics. I always wanted to sharpen my understanding so
I could answer the objections non christians would bring up. Even then
I was probably seeking solace in the mental gymnastics of Christian
apologetics to help seal the work I wanted so badly to be complete and
absolute. It was neither, and it would never be sealed.
I went to Europe to complete a course in biblical studies, I was asked
to leave because I objected to the manipulation i saw in the
teachings.
I had traveled a bit before and maybe wasn't so enthralled by being
away from home and just "wanting to be apart" like a lot of the
others.
One teaching was when they asked the students link arms around a
wooden cross and the teachers would pretend to be demons trying to
break through. It was hardly aggressive but certainly misleading. I
was a christian then and objected based on the inconsistent metaphor.
Traditional christian teachings would realize that a believer has no
capacity to protect jesus as well as no capacity to "save" another
person.
How powerful is this god who needs us to rally together to protect him anyways?
Fast forward over the last 8 years and I spent time touring, going to
school, working and trying to figure out my path. I thought of myself
as
a christian but was nothing like the image i had in my mind as a 15
year old. I got married, had a beautiful baby boy who is now 2.5. I
love my son.
I was in counseling for the past 2 years with a christian counselor
but she didn't really talk about faith much.
My wife and I had stopped going to church, because we were generally
perplexed by the whole thing and didn't really fit.
One day in a counseling session I had a breakthrough... I was
frustrated by lack of power of my faith to change me,
to make me into the man I wanted to be. I was thinking about the
scriptures telling me that "if you love me, you'll obey me",
I knew then I didn't love god. I contrasted then the care and love and
powerful connection I have to my son to this god I had served with so
many of my years.. or tried.
Nothing really to compare there. I saw like a flash all the
sensational moments I had claimed god at work in and found them full
of my own self deception.
The spell is broken:
i lack a belief in god or any gods. This process has been wonderful
really, I have enjoyed the rediscovery of the world with much
gratitude.
I have experienced the impact of responsibility that I formally put on
a ghost but now gladly work harder for the life I want with more
optimism and joy than ever before.
My hope is that more people with think through the contradictions of
religious belief and object without fear to the inconsistency and
reclaim our responsibility and our humanity.
Thanks for reading!
Joseph
My story of my conversion from Christian to Critical Thinker:
This will not be a list of the contradictions that show the
reasonability of my unbelief, but more of a personal background and
narrative.
I, like many, was raised in "christian home". Religious activity was a
formative part of our family life, going to church/youth
group/lock-ins etc. We prayed before meals and before bed time.
I converted to Christianity at the age of 15. I was part of a youth
group that had a annual meeting every year called Ascension
Convention.
This is was the solidifying follow up to a conversion experience that
preyed on my fatherless home trauma. In this meeting I was shown how
to be drunk in the holy spirit. which I know now I faked, but this is
the beginning of the damage.
The modern church, with their emphasis on entertainment and fun, is
only there to sweeten the tart cautionary tale of the gospel. Believe
or suffer.
(the medieval church wasn't entertaining teens, they were scaring them
half to death by oppressing secular ideas and threatening actions)
My oh my how the modern church has evolved.
I was totally apart, my entire basis of friends and community was not
based on what we liked to do or similar interests but instead all
interaction
was predicated on the union of belief. We believed first and then
interacted. Now, I had a lot of fun and lived a relatively un
controversial life.
Except for an average amount of friction with my mom about regular
teenage things I had good relationships.
I continued my growth in the faith by becoming a veracious reader of
Christian apologetics. I always wanted to sharpen my understanding so
I could answer the objections non christians would bring up. Even then
I was probably seeking solace in the mental gymnastics of Christian
apologetics to help seal the work I wanted so badly to be complete and
absolute. It was neither, and it would never be sealed.
I went to Europe to complete a course in biblical studies, I was asked
to leave because I objected to the manipulation i saw in the
teachings.
I had traveled a bit before and maybe wasn't so enthralled by being
away from home and just "wanting to be apart" like a lot of the
others.
One teaching was when they asked the students link arms around a
wooden cross and the teachers would pretend to be demons trying to
break through. It was hardly aggressive but certainly misleading. I
was a christian then and objected based on the inconsistent metaphor.
Traditional christian teachings would realize that a believer has no
capacity to protect jesus as well as no capacity to "save" another
person.
How powerful is this god who needs us to rally together to protect him anyways?
Fast forward over the last 8 years and I spent time touring, going to
school, working and trying to figure out my path. I thought of myself
as
a christian but was nothing like the image i had in my mind as a 15
year old. I got married, had a beautiful baby boy who is now 2.5. I
love my son.
I was in counseling for the past 2 years with a christian counselor
but she didn't really talk about faith much.
My wife and I had stopped going to church, because we were generally
perplexed by the whole thing and didn't really fit.
One day in a counseling session I had a breakthrough... I was
frustrated by lack of power of my faith to change me,
to make me into the man I wanted to be. I was thinking about the
scriptures telling me that "if you love me, you'll obey me",
I knew then I didn't love god. I contrasted then the care and love and
powerful connection I have to my son to this god I had served with so
many of my years.. or tried.
Nothing really to compare there. I saw like a flash all the
sensational moments I had claimed god at work in and found them full
of my own self deception.
The spell is broken:
i lack a belief in god or any gods. This process has been wonderful
really, I have enjoyed the rediscovery of the world with much
gratitude.
I have experienced the impact of responsibility that I formally put on
a ghost but now gladly work harder for the life I want with more
optimism and joy than ever before.
My hope is that more people with think through the contradictions of
religious belief and object without fear to the inconsistency and
reclaim our responsibility and our humanity.
Thanks for reading!
Joseph
Tuesday 5 June 2012
testimony of a former UCC
By Zaphod
I've been posting sporadically here on Ex-C for months, so I thought
I'd finally make a formal introduction. Like so many before me, I have
written a very long story of my loss of faith. I grew up in the Church
of Christ denomination (aka the "churches of Christ.") What mainly
sets this denomination apart from others is a lack of instrumental
music in the worship services and the belief that willful baptism by
immersion is an essential step in salvation. That last bit was
particularly awkward as a kid since it implied that even the
overwhelming majority of even my church-going friends were not saved.
When my mother referred to someone as a "Christian" or as a "member of
the church," I knew she meant someone who attended a Church of Christ.
The other denominations didn't count as "Christians." I think they're
loosening up a bit on that last point, but it was how we were raised.
I didn't question Christianity a whole lot as a kid. I was baptized at
age 11 because I didn't want to go to hell. Any doubts I may have had
were usually confined to questioning the peculiarities of our
particular branch of Christianity. I do remember one Wednesday night
service when I'd been asked to give that night's lesson, as the
baptized youth were occasionally invited to do, I stood in front of
those people and told them of a recent struggle I'd had with my faith,
but I'd decided that God must exist because Jesus had said, "In my
father's house are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told
you," and I trusted Jesus. (It made sense at the time.) I also
specifically remember telling these people that I'd also decided to
accept the Gospel for my own sanity -- I just couldn't handle the idea
of a world without God. One little old lady came up and told me how
much she'd enjoyed my lesson, but I remember feeling surprised because
I really didn't think I'd done a very good job of justifying my faith.
That was about the extent of my questioning of my faith in general. I
always hated talking about baptism and musical instruments with my
friends. These issues made my church "weird" compared to the others.
(For those interested, baptism was required because of the way we read
Acts 2:38, and musical instruments were not used because there was no
biblical record of their use in worship in the first-century church.)
I took my faith seriously in my youth. I moved away for college and
joined up with the student group at the biggest Church of Christ in
town. My entire social life revolved around church. Didn't hang out
with classmates, and even had little interaction with guys in my dorm.
The summers of my freshman and sophomore years I went on mission trips
to Ukraine to bring Jesus to the former communists, and to finally put
my foreign language skills to use. I ended up flunking out of college
my junior year just because I've taken longer than most people to grow
up, but I got a local job and stayed in that college town.
Shortly after flunking out, I talked a young teen into being baptized.
I took that event as a sign from God and decided I would become a
missionary. Our church there ran a missionary training program that
consisted of one semester of full-time bible study followed by an
18-month apprenticeship overseas. It was during this bible study that
I really came to realize that the bible was not literally true. I
remember the specific incident. We were doing a comparative study of
the gospels, and I saw something that I had never noticed before. It
was one of those things that make you ask, "How is it possible that
I've never noticed this?" It was the story of Jesus going ape-shit in
the temple and wrecking the money-changers' tables. There's a HUGE
discrepancy between the way John tells the story and… whichever other
gospel tells it, but it's not one you'd really notice when the story's
read to you out of context. John's gospel puts this incident at the
beginning of Jesus' ministry, but the other gospel portrays this as an
incident at the end of his ministry, the week of his crucifixion. This
was huge for me. At this point in my life I was OK with the fact that
Genesis might just be a non-literal, poetic allegory about creation,
but this Jesus rampage story was something else entirely to me. John's
gospel was a book of history. This wasn't about two witnesses with
different viewing angles getting different parts of the same event.
This was a change in the timeline, a rewrite. This had happened in the
editing room. I was beginning to realize that the gospels probably
tell us as much fact about Jesus as the movie "Tombstone" does about
Wyatt Earp.
So I finished my bible study and told everyone I was going to go
overseas. Long story short, I kept dragging my feet until the day a
roommate of mine told about his summer mission trip to Kenya, and how
one man had lost his children because his family objected to his
conversion from Islam to Christianity. I decided I wasn't certain
enough in my faith to rip a family apart, and I dropped the idea of
becoming a missionary.
I was probably about 22 when I decided missionary life was not for me.
At 24, after six years in this town attending the same church, I came
out of the closet as a homosexual. That journey is a whole book unto
itself. Friendships did wither about that time, but maybe my sexuality
wasn't as big a deal as it seemed since I was in my sixth year living
in a college town and my friends had mostly graduated and moved away
by then. After coming out, I stopped going to church altogether for a
few months. I remember that I read The Case for Christ in those days
and was disappointed by it. It was at a time when I was trying
desperately to cling to my faith, but Strobel sounded to me like a
lawyer questioning his own client on the stand. I was not impressed at
the questions he was lobbing at his interviewees. I still wasn't quite
ready to give up on God, though. After a few churchless months I
landed at the town's gay-friendly church, a United Church of Christ
(similar name, but completely different denomination).
It was during this time of attending church that two things happened
that were the final nails in the coffin of my Christianity. First,
internet prayer requests started to become a big thing, at least in my
inbox. You've likely seen 'em. "Little Betty Sue in Tuscaloosa is
seven and has brain cancer. Imagine what would happen if 3.7 zillion
Christians prayed for her healing!" I realized that I wasn't
comfortable with the fact that Betty Sue, an American who is a day's
drive from St. Jude's, would be getting even more preferential
treatment because she was born into a society that worshipped the
"right" god and had electronic access to other worshippers of the
right god, none of which was available to a seven-year-old girl with
brain cancer in an Amazonian jungle.
Second, I found the book Why Christianity Must Change Or Die by John
Spong. (Well, I say now that this was the final nail in the coffin,
but it's been weeks since I wrote the previous paragraph and now I'm
not entirely certain that this is what I was originally talking about.
It'll do, though.) Spong is a retired Episcopal bishop who in this
book makes the case for a non-theistic version of Christianity. I
don't think he ever used the term "atheistic" to describe his outlook.
He says that Christians have to acknowledge the reality that we live
in a world where Darwin and Einstein have been shown to be right, that
there is no afterlife, that God may not actually be an intelligent
agent, and, most heretical of all, that Jesus was not born of a virgin
and today is still dead. Finally I had found a form of Christianity
that was consistent with the world around me. It allowed me to attend
church with a clean conscience for another few months, but eventually
my work schedule changed in a way that interfered and I quit going
again. I've been calling myself a deist or an agnostic for eight or
ten years now. Though it can be depressing and disorienting at first,
the most beautiful thing I have ever discovered is that life is empty
and meaningless. It's beautiful and liberating because it means that I
can go out there and find out what life means to me, and not worry
about fitting my life into a plan laid out by a bronze-age author who
didn't even know the earth orbits the sun.
Today I find myself in the awkward position of living with my parents
as I return to school to finish the degree I didn't finish nearly
twenty years ago. I've been here for just over two years. I have told
my folks I am a deist and I went to church with them with some
regularity for close to a year after I moved in. A couple of different
sermons over the past six months have pissed me off so much that I
have quit going. However things are especially awkward because my dad
is an elder in the church, a formal position of leadership. I'm not
sure how much their church friends have figured out about me, but some
in the church might argue based on scripture that my dad should be
disqualified from that post for having a son who is an apostate and an
unrepetant homosexual. I'd feel bad for potentially taking away this
post because it's the highest honor our sect can bestow on a layman.
I'm trying to walk a balance and live my life without screwing up
everyone else's as a result. Right now, though, I don't go to church
with them and they don't hassle me about it, even though I know it
disappoints them. We all still love each other, but I'm really looking
forward to transferring to an out-of-town four-year university.
I've been posting sporadically here on Ex-C for months, so I thought
I'd finally make a formal introduction. Like so many before me, I have
written a very long story of my loss of faith. I grew up in the Church
of Christ denomination (aka the "churches of Christ.") What mainly
sets this denomination apart from others is a lack of instrumental
music in the worship services and the belief that willful baptism by
immersion is an essential step in salvation. That last bit was
particularly awkward as a kid since it implied that even the
overwhelming majority of even my church-going friends were not saved.
When my mother referred to someone as a "Christian" or as a "member of
the church," I knew she meant someone who attended a Church of Christ.
The other denominations didn't count as "Christians." I think they're
loosening up a bit on that last point, but it was how we were raised.
I didn't question Christianity a whole lot as a kid. I was baptized at
age 11 because I didn't want to go to hell. Any doubts I may have had
were usually confined to questioning the peculiarities of our
particular branch of Christianity. I do remember one Wednesday night
service when I'd been asked to give that night's lesson, as the
baptized youth were occasionally invited to do, I stood in front of
those people and told them of a recent struggle I'd had with my faith,
but I'd decided that God must exist because Jesus had said, "In my
father's house are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told
you," and I trusted Jesus. (It made sense at the time.) I also
specifically remember telling these people that I'd also decided to
accept the Gospel for my own sanity -- I just couldn't handle the idea
of a world without God. One little old lady came up and told me how
much she'd enjoyed my lesson, but I remember feeling surprised because
I really didn't think I'd done a very good job of justifying my faith.
That was about the extent of my questioning of my faith in general. I
always hated talking about baptism and musical instruments with my
friends. These issues made my church "weird" compared to the others.
(For those interested, baptism was required because of the way we read
Acts 2:38, and musical instruments were not used because there was no
biblical record of their use in worship in the first-century church.)
I took my faith seriously in my youth. I moved away for college and
joined up with the student group at the biggest Church of Christ in
town. My entire social life revolved around church. Didn't hang out
with classmates, and even had little interaction with guys in my dorm.
The summers of my freshman and sophomore years I went on mission trips
to Ukraine to bring Jesus to the former communists, and to finally put
my foreign language skills to use. I ended up flunking out of college
my junior year just because I've taken longer than most people to grow
up, but I got a local job and stayed in that college town.
Shortly after flunking out, I talked a young teen into being baptized.
I took that event as a sign from God and decided I would become a
missionary. Our church there ran a missionary training program that
consisted of one semester of full-time bible study followed by an
18-month apprenticeship overseas. It was during this bible study that
I really came to realize that the bible was not literally true. I
remember the specific incident. We were doing a comparative study of
the gospels, and I saw something that I had never noticed before. It
was one of those things that make you ask, "How is it possible that
I've never noticed this?" It was the story of Jesus going ape-shit in
the temple and wrecking the money-changers' tables. There's a HUGE
discrepancy between the way John tells the story and… whichever other
gospel tells it, but it's not one you'd really notice when the story's
read to you out of context. John's gospel puts this incident at the
beginning of Jesus' ministry, but the other gospel portrays this as an
incident at the end of his ministry, the week of his crucifixion. This
was huge for me. At this point in my life I was OK with the fact that
Genesis might just be a non-literal, poetic allegory about creation,
but this Jesus rampage story was something else entirely to me. John's
gospel was a book of history. This wasn't about two witnesses with
different viewing angles getting different parts of the same event.
This was a change in the timeline, a rewrite. This had happened in the
editing room. I was beginning to realize that the gospels probably
tell us as much fact about Jesus as the movie "Tombstone" does about
Wyatt Earp.
So I finished my bible study and told everyone I was going to go
overseas. Long story short, I kept dragging my feet until the day a
roommate of mine told about his summer mission trip to Kenya, and how
one man had lost his children because his family objected to his
conversion from Islam to Christianity. I decided I wasn't certain
enough in my faith to rip a family apart, and I dropped the idea of
becoming a missionary.
I was probably about 22 when I decided missionary life was not for me.
At 24, after six years in this town attending the same church, I came
out of the closet as a homosexual. That journey is a whole book unto
itself. Friendships did wither about that time, but maybe my sexuality
wasn't as big a deal as it seemed since I was in my sixth year living
in a college town and my friends had mostly graduated and moved away
by then. After coming out, I stopped going to church altogether for a
few months. I remember that I read The Case for Christ in those days
and was disappointed by it. It was at a time when I was trying
desperately to cling to my faith, but Strobel sounded to me like a
lawyer questioning his own client on the stand. I was not impressed at
the questions he was lobbing at his interviewees. I still wasn't quite
ready to give up on God, though. After a few churchless months I
landed at the town's gay-friendly church, a United Church of Christ
(similar name, but completely different denomination).
It was during this time of attending church that two things happened
that were the final nails in the coffin of my Christianity. First,
internet prayer requests started to become a big thing, at least in my
inbox. You've likely seen 'em. "Little Betty Sue in Tuscaloosa is
seven and has brain cancer. Imagine what would happen if 3.7 zillion
Christians prayed for her healing!" I realized that I wasn't
comfortable with the fact that Betty Sue, an American who is a day's
drive from St. Jude's, would be getting even more preferential
treatment because she was born into a society that worshipped the
"right" god and had electronic access to other worshippers of the
right god, none of which was available to a seven-year-old girl with
brain cancer in an Amazonian jungle.
Second, I found the book Why Christianity Must Change Or Die by John
Spong. (Well, I say now that this was the final nail in the coffin,
but it's been weeks since I wrote the previous paragraph and now I'm
not entirely certain that this is what I was originally talking about.
It'll do, though.) Spong is a retired Episcopal bishop who in this
book makes the case for a non-theistic version of Christianity. I
don't think he ever used the term "atheistic" to describe his outlook.
He says that Christians have to acknowledge the reality that we live
in a world where Darwin and Einstein have been shown to be right, that
there is no afterlife, that God may not actually be an intelligent
agent, and, most heretical of all, that Jesus was not born of a virgin
and today is still dead. Finally I had found a form of Christianity
that was consistent with the world around me. It allowed me to attend
church with a clean conscience for another few months, but eventually
my work schedule changed in a way that interfered and I quit going
again. I've been calling myself a deist or an agnostic for eight or
ten years now. Though it can be depressing and disorienting at first,
the most beautiful thing I have ever discovered is that life is empty
and meaningless. It's beautiful and liberating because it means that I
can go out there and find out what life means to me, and not worry
about fitting my life into a plan laid out by a bronze-age author who
didn't even know the earth orbits the sun.
Today I find myself in the awkward position of living with my parents
as I return to school to finish the degree I didn't finish nearly
twenty years ago. I've been here for just over two years. I have told
my folks I am a deist and I went to church with them with some
regularity for close to a year after I moved in. A couple of different
sermons over the past six months have pissed me off so much that I
have quit going. However things are especially awkward because my dad
is an elder in the church, a formal position of leadership. I'm not
sure how much their church friends have figured out about me, but some
in the church might argue based on scripture that my dad should be
disqualified from that post for having a son who is an apostate and an
unrepetant homosexual. I'd feel bad for potentially taking away this
post because it's the highest honor our sect can bestow on a layman.
I'm trying to walk a balance and live my life without screwing up
everyone else's as a result. Right now, though, I don't go to church
with them and they don't hassle me about it, even though I know it
disappoints them. We all still love each other, but I'm really looking
forward to transferring to an out-of-town four-year university.
The change I can't believe in
By J Smith
The year was 1993 and my mom talked me into a Billy Graham Crusade. I
remember my mom pushing me at the end to go down and accept the lord;
I refused. Later that year I got myself into some trouble and ended up
in jail for a weekend. At that point in my life I needed a change. I
called my mom and told her I was ready to go to church with her. She
was over excited to lead me to her charismatic church on Sunday
morning. What happened after that has been 19 long years of change.
Confusion, guilt, shame, arrogance, and my new found judgmental
attitude was not the change I was looking for.
At the beginning of my journey it was just like buying a new car,
fresh, clean, and exciting! I couldn't get enough of reading the bible
and going to church. The promises were out of this world! I would
drive down the road and shout "Jesus loves you" to people on the
sidewalk. I tithed, prayed, studied, and fellowshipped just like every
new Christian does at the beginning. I felt like I was floating on a
cloud! The floating started to fade after two years into studying the
bible, because I realized something was wrong with this charismatic
thing (tongues was faked, miracles were always something internal that
no one could really verify, prophecies were everywhere and few if any
ever came to pass, and everyone just kept on believing this phony
stuff without ever questioning it). Great, let's go to a reformed
Calvinist church and get the "real" truth. After five years of
crawling through theological mud, at three different Calvinist based
churches, and condemning everyone who wasn't a Calvinist I walked away
from it. For the next ten years my family and I moved from church to
church seeking out the elusive church that had the truth. Two years
ago I threw my hands up in the air with two BIG giant fingers pointed
to the sky. That's right, I flipped god the bird. I have spent the
last two years trying to make sense of all this. I have scoured the
Internet, talked to Christian and non-Christian alike, read books on
church history, the canonization of the bible, Evolution, creation… I
sit here today so screwed up in my mind I can hardly function in life.
"Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened" really? I
sought hard, and knocked a lot, but the more I did the more I fell
away from the faith realizing there was no one listening to my
prayers.
One of the main reasons I walked away was Christians themselves. The
examples I see from them are for the most part enough to make me throw
up in my mouth. Sure, there were some decent examples, but then I see
that in Atheists and other non-Christians as well (Shhh, Christians
don't realize that there are non-Christians that live moral lives and
love people more than they do). My brother's family was laid to waste
by Christianity. One kid ran away, one went to jail, and the other one
was forced to marry someone she didn't want to because of a
"prophecy", and now their divorced with three kids. I am still dealing
with Christian neighbors that are absolutely destroying their kids.
Their kids come to me in tears so that they can live at our house
instead of theirs. I was told they wished their parents would die so
we could adopt them. Before you Christians say, "Oh those parents are
in the wrong church", no, they go to a local bible believing
non-denominational church where everyone wears big smiles. My dad is a
Christian and the most judgmental man I know. To him all homosexuals
and democrats should be put to death, and the bible says so.
Leadership in churches is nothing more than a power grab and mind
control game. There are some decent leaders trying to do what is
right, granted, but many are control freaks who only care for
themselves and their doctrine. If you don't believe me go to a church
and take a stand against what they believe. Every Christian has an
opinion, none of them have answers. I am sick and tired of hearing,
"real miracles happen over in Africa", "if you just ask the Holy
Spirit he will lead you into all truth", "you have a faith issue",
"you're in sin, that's why your prayers aren't being answered", and my
all-time favorite: "Satan is leading you astray". Christians have
canned answers for everything. Over the years you build up this
repository of answers to any skeptic's questions. On the surface they
sound good, however, if any thought is put into them you will
immediately expose them for what they are, "excuses".
The bible itself is mass confusion, thus the thousands of different
denominations within Christianity. I for many years believed the bible
to be the inerrant word of god, hook, line, and sinker; you could not
convince me otherwise. A strange thing happened one day. I asked
myself why if dinosaurs lived with man do we not find dinosaurs and
man buried in the rock layers together. Surely they were all buried by
the flood and killed together and therefore should be found together,
civilizations, dinosaurs, dogs, cows, humans. Why? My research led me
far and wide. The bottom line is the earth is not 6000 years old, and
dinosaurs did not live with humans, thus the Genesis story is nothing
more than that, a story. Christians are easy prey to brainwashing by
the likes of the Creation Research Institute and Answers in Genesis. I
was at a natural history museum last year and there was a Christian
mom and dad in the dinosaur exhibit. The dad said, out loud, "Boy I am
glad we didn't let our kids in here to see all this old earth
Evolution crap". A few years back I would have been the one saying
that. I looked at him and realized he didn't have a clue what he was
talking about, just regurgitating what he has been told or read
without ever looking into what evidence science has to offer. It is
absolutely sickening to hear Christians working their pie hole out of
complete ignorance. What is even more sickening is I did it for 17
years. At one time I believed the flood of Noah destroyed the world
and god preserved life on the ark and all these "millions of dead
things buried in rock layers around the earth" were there because of
the flood. A simple study in geology and fossil order debunks that
myth. A man living in a fish's belly for three days and nights,
talking donkeys and snakes, mysterious hands writing on walls, men
riding chariots of fire into heaven, the sun stopping in the sky for a
day and on and on it goes. All easily believed and yet absolutely no
proof of any of it other than ancient texts. Yet, evidence staring
them right in the face for an ancient earth and evolution, and they
laugh at it calling it from Satan. It is easy to see why people would
sacrifice their lives for Jim Jones, David Koresh, and the Heavens
Gate crew. The most powerful people in the world are those standing
behind pulpits on a Sunday morning; they can destroy lives with a
word.
The bible is riddled with contradictions. Yea, I know all the
arguments for the "supposed" contradictions, because I believed there
were none at one time also. It is unbelievable the tap dance that
Christian Apologists have to do to reconcile contradictions. I started
looking at these contradictions and then finding the answer to them on
apologist websites. I found out that most of them had different
answers to the contradictions, and they all believed they were right.
I can't take it when an apologist says, "all we have to do is show
that there is a possible answer and the contradiction is resolved".
Are you kidding me? Hell, anyone can come up with a "possible" answer
to any contradiction. "The guy is black - the guy is white" Well
there's a contradiction, he can't be both! Christian answer: The guy
that appeared to be black was actually a white guy standing in the
shadow of a tree during a full lunar eclipse on a blue moon Tuesday,
and he appeared to be black, "no contradiction". After going through
hundreds of these contractions and seeing the answers presented, I
threw my arms up the air. My question at this point was why would god
so confuse people with his "written word" that no one knows how to
interpret it correctly, and no one can really figure out the truth of
it? Why is he hiding behind a word that confuses everyone? It is like
a bunch of rabbits all running in different directions? I heard a
Christian say that god purposely designed his word for confusion so
that the message would spread around the world! WTF, they have an
answer for everything!
One of the main reasons I walked away was Christians themselves. The
examples I see from them are for the most part enough to make me throw
up in my mouth. For a Christian/theologian to say that we have an
inerrant bible is a JOKE. I know, now the war cry is, "the originals
were without error, the bibles we have do have copyist errors". What
part of the word "errors" don't they understand? Better yet they are
never told there are errors, because I never once heard it in 17 years
of church going. Christian leaders do not share this with the flock,
or they wouldn't have their steady stream of $$ coming in. Oh, by the
way, does anyone have an original gospel so I can examine it to see if
there are no errors? Just reading through the book of Matthew (or
whoever wrote it) one can see how he so twisted the Old Testament
wording to become a fulfilled prophecy for the messiah. Hell, even
Matthew couldn't figure out how to interpret the Old Testament!
(NIV)Mark chapter 1 verse 2, "as it is written in Isaiah the prophet",
clearly the rest of the verse is from Malachi, and verse 3 is from
Isaiah. Some honor student recognized this when writing the
manuscripts that were eventually used for the King James Version of
the bible and said, "as it is written in the prophets". He saw the
error and corrected it. Is this what we are to believe is the "Word of
God"; they just wily-nilly correct it when needed to hide errors? How
much more of this has happened over the centuries without our
knowledge? The bible is riddled with problems, but when you're looking
at it through inerrant tinted glasses, it is perfect. My eyes are now
open to how much religion, cults, and the like are so deceptive and
brainwashing. I believed this stuff with "all my heart" for many
years, now I am ashamed to have fallen to such man made brainwashing.
I can hear the Christians reading this now, "You just never had a
personal relationship with Jesus". You are greatly mistaken, I did
have a personal relationship with him, but he was never on the other
end. Now I hear the Calvinist, "You were never one of the elect to
begin with". Answer; if your god condemns people to eternal fire just
because he desires to and never gives them the opportunity to be
saved, I don't want anything to do with such a monster. Now I hear the
seeker sensitive Christian, "Just give Jesus a chance and he will love
you like you've never been loved before". REALLY? He said he would
never forsake me, but here I am. He said nothing can separate me from
the love of god in Jesus Christ, yet here I am. Do I need to continue?
You have all the answers don't you Christians? Don't you? Just wait
till your writing your letter for this website, and then you won't be
so damn arrogant about what you think you know.
Where does this leave me? I'm pissed off and frankly don't give a damn
anymore about religion of any kind. Christians can leave me alone and
stop making my life a f'ing misery. I'm sick of hearing their
judgments on mankind; I'm sick of seeing children be ground to dirt
because of religious zealots; I'm tired of being told there is one
truth and one way when that road is filled with delusion, dishonesty,
and manipulation. I want my life back, but fear that all these years
of brainwashing are permanent and cannot be eradicated out of my mind.
There will always be a fear of mind numbing screaming in an eternal
fire. I can sweep it under the rug, throw it out the door, ignore it
and say I don't believe it, but the fact is it will always be sitting
back there somewhere haunting me for the rest of my life, if I don't
recommit myself back to lord and go through this nightmare all over
again. Can someone please give me a poisoned cup of cool-aid, a
compound to move to in Texas, or a comet to live on before I go out of
my mind? That may sound a bit sarcastic but this shit has really
screwed me up.
The year was 1993 and my mom talked me into a Billy Graham Crusade. I
remember my mom pushing me at the end to go down and accept the lord;
I refused. Later that year I got myself into some trouble and ended up
in jail for a weekend. At that point in my life I needed a change. I
called my mom and told her I was ready to go to church with her. She
was over excited to lead me to her charismatic church on Sunday
morning. What happened after that has been 19 long years of change.
Confusion, guilt, shame, arrogance, and my new found judgmental
attitude was not the change I was looking for.
At the beginning of my journey it was just like buying a new car,
fresh, clean, and exciting! I couldn't get enough of reading the bible
and going to church. The promises were out of this world! I would
drive down the road and shout "Jesus loves you" to people on the
sidewalk. I tithed, prayed, studied, and fellowshipped just like every
new Christian does at the beginning. I felt like I was floating on a
cloud! The floating started to fade after two years into studying the
bible, because I realized something was wrong with this charismatic
thing (tongues was faked, miracles were always something internal that
no one could really verify, prophecies were everywhere and few if any
ever came to pass, and everyone just kept on believing this phony
stuff without ever questioning it). Great, let's go to a reformed
Calvinist church and get the "real" truth. After five years of
crawling through theological mud, at three different Calvinist based
churches, and condemning everyone who wasn't a Calvinist I walked away
from it. For the next ten years my family and I moved from church to
church seeking out the elusive church that had the truth. Two years
ago I threw my hands up in the air with two BIG giant fingers pointed
to the sky. That's right, I flipped god the bird. I have spent the
last two years trying to make sense of all this. I have scoured the
Internet, talked to Christian and non-Christian alike, read books on
church history, the canonization of the bible, Evolution, creation… I
sit here today so screwed up in my mind I can hardly function in life.
"Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened" really? I
sought hard, and knocked a lot, but the more I did the more I fell
away from the faith realizing there was no one listening to my
prayers.
One of the main reasons I walked away was Christians themselves. The
examples I see from them are for the most part enough to make me throw
up in my mouth. Sure, there were some decent examples, but then I see
that in Atheists and other non-Christians as well (Shhh, Christians
don't realize that there are non-Christians that live moral lives and
love people more than they do). My brother's family was laid to waste
by Christianity. One kid ran away, one went to jail, and the other one
was forced to marry someone she didn't want to because of a
"prophecy", and now their divorced with three kids. I am still dealing
with Christian neighbors that are absolutely destroying their kids.
Their kids come to me in tears so that they can live at our house
instead of theirs. I was told they wished their parents would die so
we could adopt them. Before you Christians say, "Oh those parents are
in the wrong church", no, they go to a local bible believing
non-denominational church where everyone wears big smiles. My dad is a
Christian and the most judgmental man I know. To him all homosexuals
and democrats should be put to death, and the bible says so.
Leadership in churches is nothing more than a power grab and mind
control game. There are some decent leaders trying to do what is
right, granted, but many are control freaks who only care for
themselves and their doctrine. If you don't believe me go to a church
and take a stand against what they believe. Every Christian has an
opinion, none of them have answers. I am sick and tired of hearing,
"real miracles happen over in Africa", "if you just ask the Holy
Spirit he will lead you into all truth", "you have a faith issue",
"you're in sin, that's why your prayers aren't being answered", and my
all-time favorite: "Satan is leading you astray". Christians have
canned answers for everything. Over the years you build up this
repository of answers to any skeptic's questions. On the surface they
sound good, however, if any thought is put into them you will
immediately expose them for what they are, "excuses".
The bible itself is mass confusion, thus the thousands of different
denominations within Christianity. I for many years believed the bible
to be the inerrant word of god, hook, line, and sinker; you could not
convince me otherwise. A strange thing happened one day. I asked
myself why if dinosaurs lived with man do we not find dinosaurs and
man buried in the rock layers together. Surely they were all buried by
the flood and killed together and therefore should be found together,
civilizations, dinosaurs, dogs, cows, humans. Why? My research led me
far and wide. The bottom line is the earth is not 6000 years old, and
dinosaurs did not live with humans, thus the Genesis story is nothing
more than that, a story. Christians are easy prey to brainwashing by
the likes of the Creation Research Institute and Answers in Genesis. I
was at a natural history museum last year and there was a Christian
mom and dad in the dinosaur exhibit. The dad said, out loud, "Boy I am
glad we didn't let our kids in here to see all this old earth
Evolution crap". A few years back I would have been the one saying
that. I looked at him and realized he didn't have a clue what he was
talking about, just regurgitating what he has been told or read
without ever looking into what evidence science has to offer. It is
absolutely sickening to hear Christians working their pie hole out of
complete ignorance. What is even more sickening is I did it for 17
years. At one time I believed the flood of Noah destroyed the world
and god preserved life on the ark and all these "millions of dead
things buried in rock layers around the earth" were there because of
the flood. A simple study in geology and fossil order debunks that
myth. A man living in a fish's belly for three days and nights,
talking donkeys and snakes, mysterious hands writing on walls, men
riding chariots of fire into heaven, the sun stopping in the sky for a
day and on and on it goes. All easily believed and yet absolutely no
proof of any of it other than ancient texts. Yet, evidence staring
them right in the face for an ancient earth and evolution, and they
laugh at it calling it from Satan. It is easy to see why people would
sacrifice their lives for Jim Jones, David Koresh, and the Heavens
Gate crew. The most powerful people in the world are those standing
behind pulpits on a Sunday morning; they can destroy lives with a
word.
The bible is riddled with contradictions. Yea, I know all the
arguments for the "supposed" contradictions, because I believed there
were none at one time also. It is unbelievable the tap dance that
Christian Apologists have to do to reconcile contradictions. I started
looking at these contradictions and then finding the answer to them on
apologist websites. I found out that most of them had different
answers to the contradictions, and they all believed they were right.
I can't take it when an apologist says, "all we have to do is show
that there is a possible answer and the contradiction is resolved".
Are you kidding me? Hell, anyone can come up with a "possible" answer
to any contradiction. "The guy is black - the guy is white" Well
there's a contradiction, he can't be both! Christian answer: The guy
that appeared to be black was actually a white guy standing in the
shadow of a tree during a full lunar eclipse on a blue moon Tuesday,
and he appeared to be black, "no contradiction". After going through
hundreds of these contractions and seeing the answers presented, I
threw my arms up the air. My question at this point was why would god
so confuse people with his "written word" that no one knows how to
interpret it correctly, and no one can really figure out the truth of
it? Why is he hiding behind a word that confuses everyone? It is like
a bunch of rabbits all running in different directions? I heard a
Christian say that god purposely designed his word for confusion so
that the message would spread around the world! WTF, they have an
answer for everything!
One of the main reasons I walked away was Christians themselves. The
examples I see from them are for the most part enough to make me throw
up in my mouth. For a Christian/theologian to say that we have an
inerrant bible is a JOKE. I know, now the war cry is, "the originals
were without error, the bibles we have do have copyist errors". What
part of the word "errors" don't they understand? Better yet they are
never told there are errors, because I never once heard it in 17 years
of church going. Christian leaders do not share this with the flock,
or they wouldn't have their steady stream of $$ coming in. Oh, by the
way, does anyone have an original gospel so I can examine it to see if
there are no errors? Just reading through the book of Matthew (or
whoever wrote it) one can see how he so twisted the Old Testament
wording to become a fulfilled prophecy for the messiah. Hell, even
Matthew couldn't figure out how to interpret the Old Testament!
(NIV)Mark chapter 1 verse 2, "as it is written in Isaiah the prophet",
clearly the rest of the verse is from Malachi, and verse 3 is from
Isaiah. Some honor student recognized this when writing the
manuscripts that were eventually used for the King James Version of
the bible and said, "as it is written in the prophets". He saw the
error and corrected it. Is this what we are to believe is the "Word of
God"; they just wily-nilly correct it when needed to hide errors? How
much more of this has happened over the centuries without our
knowledge? The bible is riddled with problems, but when you're looking
at it through inerrant tinted glasses, it is perfect. My eyes are now
open to how much religion, cults, and the like are so deceptive and
brainwashing. I believed this stuff with "all my heart" for many
years, now I am ashamed to have fallen to such man made brainwashing.
I can hear the Christians reading this now, "You just never had a
personal relationship with Jesus". You are greatly mistaken, I did
have a personal relationship with him, but he was never on the other
end. Now I hear the Calvinist, "You were never one of the elect to
begin with". Answer; if your god condemns people to eternal fire just
because he desires to and never gives them the opportunity to be
saved, I don't want anything to do with such a monster. Now I hear the
seeker sensitive Christian, "Just give Jesus a chance and he will love
you like you've never been loved before". REALLY? He said he would
never forsake me, but here I am. He said nothing can separate me from
the love of god in Jesus Christ, yet here I am. Do I need to continue?
You have all the answers don't you Christians? Don't you? Just wait
till your writing your letter for this website, and then you won't be
so damn arrogant about what you think you know.
Where does this leave me? I'm pissed off and frankly don't give a damn
anymore about religion of any kind. Christians can leave me alone and
stop making my life a f'ing misery. I'm sick of hearing their
judgments on mankind; I'm sick of seeing children be ground to dirt
because of religious zealots; I'm tired of being told there is one
truth and one way when that road is filled with delusion, dishonesty,
and manipulation. I want my life back, but fear that all these years
of brainwashing are permanent and cannot be eradicated out of my mind.
There will always be a fear of mind numbing screaming in an eternal
fire. I can sweep it under the rug, throw it out the door, ignore it
and say I don't believe it, but the fact is it will always be sitting
back there somewhere haunting me for the rest of my life, if I don't
recommit myself back to lord and go through this nightmare all over
again. Can someone please give me a poisoned cup of cool-aid, a
compound to move to in Texas, or a comet to live on before I go out of
my mind? That may sound a bit sarcastic but this shit has really
screwed me up.
Christian's bullshit
By Peacefully Hiding ~
Mankind can be a very cruel animal. When we think of cruelty it's easy
to distance ourselves from that reality because most of us are not
actually subjected to cruelty. For instance, who here has served time
in an interrogation room being water-boarded? Who has seen their
family massacred as part of a political statement? Who among us has
had the women in our family raped in front of our eyes for a burglar's
personal amusement? These things, these atrocities against one
another, are typically headline news that are soon forgotten.
Dante And Virgil In Hell by William-Adolphe Bo...
Dante And Virgil In Hell by William-Adolphe Bouguereau (1850) (Photo
credit: Wikipedia)
A particular case of this comes to mind. The burglary, assault and
murder of the Petit family. To skip to the details, the mother
cooperated giving the robbers $15,000 from her savings to their
assurances they would leave the family unharmed. Soon after one of the
criminals raped her in her living room and strangled her with her fine
silk scarf until her face turned purple and eyes literally bulged from
her skull. This was after molesting her 11 year old daughter and
taking cell phone pictures of it. After murdering the mother the two
criminals poured gasoline over the mother's two daughters faces and
bodies, one 17, the other 11, and lit them on fire. The two burned
alive.
These two criminals are on death row and will be for awhile appealing
their conviction, though they were caught immediately after they set
the house and family on fire and confessed to the slaughter.
Mankind can be a very cruel animal.What, then, should we do to these
two criminals? If you read the full report online you'd be tempted to
give them the worst punishment you could imagine, for they deserve no
less and no mercy. One member of the jury didn't believe they deserved
the death penalty. They even have supporters. Yes, men who rape 11
year old girls and set them on fire have supporters.
Again we return to the question of 'what do we do to these two when
death isn't enough?'
Many who oppose the death sentence immediately opt for them being put
in jail for the rest of their lives and given 'prison justice'.
We can imagine the details of prison justice but what we fail to
recognize is the lack of responsibility on our part to punish these
people. Rather than punish we put them in the hands of human 'devils'
so to speak, who do their bidding for the eternal remainder of their
life on Earth.
Does this sound anything like the bible's description of hell? A place
where WE have no bloodshed on our hands. We hand that over to God and
his 'hell' device.
Hell, to me, seems like a mirror of prison justice. We need not feel
any guilt because 'we' aren't responsible for what goes on inside-
right? It's all God's decision.
Just as I feel allowing prisoners to rape and kill one another is
fundamentally wrong I feel that the idea of hell is wrong. It is an
extension of human thought, clear and simple, and we know human
thoughts are not divine, no matter how inspired they may be. If God
existed as he is written to be in the bible there would be no hell for
there would be no allowing criminals to allow themselves choices which
lead to hell. Why allow the birth of a murderer? To send them to hell?
It's more fair to say we do not understand what happens to us when our
lives end on this Earth. There may be a god who may punish but the
bible does a very poor job in describing such a phenomenon in a divine
manner devoid of human interference.
Mankind can be a very cruel animal. When we think of cruelty it's easy
to distance ourselves from that reality because most of us are not
actually subjected to cruelty. For instance, who here has served time
in an interrogation room being water-boarded? Who has seen their
family massacred as part of a political statement? Who among us has
had the women in our family raped in front of our eyes for a burglar's
personal amusement? These things, these atrocities against one
another, are typically headline news that are soon forgotten.
Dante And Virgil In Hell by William-Adolphe Bo...
Dante And Virgil In Hell by William-Adolphe Bouguereau (1850) (Photo
credit: Wikipedia)
A particular case of this comes to mind. The burglary, assault and
murder of the Petit family. To skip to the details, the mother
cooperated giving the robbers $15,000 from her savings to their
assurances they would leave the family unharmed. Soon after one of the
criminals raped her in her living room and strangled her with her fine
silk scarf until her face turned purple and eyes literally bulged from
her skull. This was after molesting her 11 year old daughter and
taking cell phone pictures of it. After murdering the mother the two
criminals poured gasoline over the mother's two daughters faces and
bodies, one 17, the other 11, and lit them on fire. The two burned
alive.
These two criminals are on death row and will be for awhile appealing
their conviction, though they were caught immediately after they set
the house and family on fire and confessed to the slaughter.
Mankind can be a very cruel animal.What, then, should we do to these
two criminals? If you read the full report online you'd be tempted to
give them the worst punishment you could imagine, for they deserve no
less and no mercy. One member of the jury didn't believe they deserved
the death penalty. They even have supporters. Yes, men who rape 11
year old girls and set them on fire have supporters.
Again we return to the question of 'what do we do to these two when
death isn't enough?'
Many who oppose the death sentence immediately opt for them being put
in jail for the rest of their lives and given 'prison justice'.
We can imagine the details of prison justice but what we fail to
recognize is the lack of responsibility on our part to punish these
people. Rather than punish we put them in the hands of human 'devils'
so to speak, who do their bidding for the eternal remainder of their
life on Earth.
Does this sound anything like the bible's description of hell? A place
where WE have no bloodshed on our hands. We hand that over to God and
his 'hell' device.
Hell, to me, seems like a mirror of prison justice. We need not feel
any guilt because 'we' aren't responsible for what goes on inside-
right? It's all God's decision.
Just as I feel allowing prisoners to rape and kill one another is
fundamentally wrong I feel that the idea of hell is wrong. It is an
extension of human thought, clear and simple, and we know human
thoughts are not divine, no matter how inspired they may be. If God
existed as he is written to be in the bible there would be no hell for
there would be no allowing criminals to allow themselves choices which
lead to hell. Why allow the birth of a murderer? To send them to hell?
It's more fair to say we do not understand what happens to us when our
lives end on this Earth. There may be a god who may punish but the
bible does a very poor job in describing such a phenomenon in a divine
manner devoid of human interference.
hoax of hell
By Peacefully Hiding ~
Mankind can be a very cruel animal. When we think of cruelty it's easy
to distance ourselves from that reality because most of us are not
actually subjected to cruelty. For instance, who here has served time
in an interrogation room being water-boarded? Who has seen their
family massacred as part of a political statement? Who among us has
had the women in our family raped in front of our eyes for a burglar's
personal amusement? These things, these atrocities against one
another, are typically headline news that are soon forgotten.
Dante And Virgil In Hell by William-Adolphe Bo...
Dante And Virgil In Hell by William-Adolphe Bouguereau (1850) (Photo
credit: Wikipedia)
A particular case of this comes to mind. The burglary, assault and
murder of the Petit family. To skip to the details, the mother
cooperated giving the robbers $15,000 from her savings to their
assurances they would leave the family unharmed. Soon after one of the
criminals raped her in her living room and strangled her with her fine
silk scarf until her face turned purple and eyes literally bulged from
her skull. This was after molesting her 11 year old daughter and
taking cell phone pictures of it. After murdering the mother the two
criminals poured gasoline over the mother's two daughters faces and
bodies, one 17, the other 11, and lit them on fire. The two burned
alive.
These two criminals are on death row and will be for awhile appealing
their conviction, though they were caught immediately after they set
the house and family on fire and confessed to the slaughter.
Mankind can be a very cruel animal.What, then, should we do to these
two criminals? If you read the full report online you'd be tempted to
give them the worst punishment you could imagine, for they deserve no
less and no mercy. One member of the jury didn't believe they deserved
the death penalty. They even have supporters. Yes, men who rape 11
year old girls and set them on fire have supporters.
Again we return to the question of 'what do we do to these two when
death isn't enough?'
Many who oppose the death sentence immediately opt for them being put
in jail for the rest of their lives and given 'prison justice'.
We can imagine the details of prison justice but what we fail to
recognize is the lack of responsibility on our part to punish these
people. Rather than punish we put them in the hands of human 'devils'
so to speak, who do their bidding for the eternal remainder of their
life on Earth.
Does this sound anything like the bible's description of hell? A place
where WE have no bloodshed on our hands. We hand that over to God and
his 'hell' device.
Hell, to me, seems like a mirror of prison justice. We need not feel
any guilt because 'we' aren't responsible for what goes on inside-
right? It's all God's decision.
Just as I feel allowing prisoners to rape and kill one another is
fundamentally wrong I feel that the idea of hell is wrong. It is an
extension of human thought, clear and simple, and we know human
thoughts are not divine, no matter how inspired they may be. If God
existed as he is written to be in the bible there would be no hell for
there would be no allowing criminals to allow themselves choices which
lead to hell. Why allow the birth of a murderer? To send them to hell?
It's more fair to say we do not understand what happens to us when our
lives end on this Earth. There may be a god who may punish but the
bible does a very poor job in describing such a phenomenon in a divine
manner devoid of human interference.
Mankind can be a very cruel animal. When we think of cruelty it's easy
to distance ourselves from that reality because most of us are not
actually subjected to cruelty. For instance, who here has served time
in an interrogation room being water-boarded? Who has seen their
family massacred as part of a political statement? Who among us has
had the women in our family raped in front of our eyes for a burglar's
personal amusement? These things, these atrocities against one
another, are typically headline news that are soon forgotten.
Dante And Virgil In Hell by William-Adolphe Bo...
Dante And Virgil In Hell by William-Adolphe Bouguereau (1850) (Photo
credit: Wikipedia)
A particular case of this comes to mind. The burglary, assault and
murder of the Petit family. To skip to the details, the mother
cooperated giving the robbers $15,000 from her savings to their
assurances they would leave the family unharmed. Soon after one of the
criminals raped her in her living room and strangled her with her fine
silk scarf until her face turned purple and eyes literally bulged from
her skull. This was after molesting her 11 year old daughter and
taking cell phone pictures of it. After murdering the mother the two
criminals poured gasoline over the mother's two daughters faces and
bodies, one 17, the other 11, and lit them on fire. The two burned
alive.
These two criminals are on death row and will be for awhile appealing
their conviction, though they were caught immediately after they set
the house and family on fire and confessed to the slaughter.
Mankind can be a very cruel animal.What, then, should we do to these
two criminals? If you read the full report online you'd be tempted to
give them the worst punishment you could imagine, for they deserve no
less and no mercy. One member of the jury didn't believe they deserved
the death penalty. They even have supporters. Yes, men who rape 11
year old girls and set them on fire have supporters.
Again we return to the question of 'what do we do to these two when
death isn't enough?'
Many who oppose the death sentence immediately opt for them being put
in jail for the rest of their lives and given 'prison justice'.
We can imagine the details of prison justice but what we fail to
recognize is the lack of responsibility on our part to punish these
people. Rather than punish we put them in the hands of human 'devils'
so to speak, who do their bidding for the eternal remainder of their
life on Earth.
Does this sound anything like the bible's description of hell? A place
where WE have no bloodshed on our hands. We hand that over to God and
his 'hell' device.
Hell, to me, seems like a mirror of prison justice. We need not feel
any guilt because 'we' aren't responsible for what goes on inside-
right? It's all God's decision.
Just as I feel allowing prisoners to rape and kill one another is
fundamentally wrong I feel that the idea of hell is wrong. It is an
extension of human thought, clear and simple, and we know human
thoughts are not divine, no matter how inspired they may be. If God
existed as he is written to be in the bible there would be no hell for
there would be no allowing criminals to allow themselves choices which
lead to hell. Why allow the birth of a murderer? To send them to hell?
It's more fair to say we do not understand what happens to us when our
lives end on this Earth. There may be a god who may punish but the
bible does a very poor job in describing such a phenomenon in a divine
manner devoid of human interference.
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